Dhananath Fernando 00:12 Hello, hello! Welcome to Advocata Studio, and today we are going to discuss about the development projects in Mana and the environmental impact already. This is a topic at the national level conversation. And joining with me today is mr. Edison Merinadan. He is an environmentalist. At the same time, he is an environmental consultant for International Union for Conservation of Nature and Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations, mr. Desan, welcome to Advocata Studio. Speaker 1 00:44 Hello, hello. Dhananath Fernando 00:46 Thank you very much for coming all the way from Manar to discuss this topic. And you can access most of the content in English, Sinhala, and Tamil. And we are glad to have you because you speak all three languages. This is the English version of it, and you will be able to access the Tamil and the Singhala version as well. Before we start the conversation, I would like to, for full disclosure, that some of the Advocata members have an interest on or as shareholders on some of the development projects in Mana. I just wanted to be full disclose about it. But just to start the conversation, mr. Edison, what is happening in Mana, and what environmental concerns that you see, and will go in detail step by step. There are some political developments as well. As an environmentalist, what are the what are the recent issues that you have seen in moving forward Speaker 1 01:41 from the next month, you can see the flood, which will be happening in Manna area due to the construction of the wind turbines. So this is not only the reason, but also that's the main reason for the flooding in that area. So when it starts from November to April, fully flooded area like Pesale and then suburbs areas. So the where the first pace of CEB wind turbines construction happens is nearby Nadukura up to Talbugaru. It's already 30 wind turbines completed as 3.45 megawatts each capacity. So totally 100 megawatts production is there. I'm a I'm an environmentalist. I'm a green technologist, so I have to oh I have to support this project. The case is why I am against to that is the environmental concerns. As an environmentalist, whether if it's a pro the project is development project or sustainable development project. That's what we want to think about. In in some means, people are telling that it's a development project for whom, for what. If we need electricity, and then we have different different ways. If we need only the wind turbine, and then we have to move for different locations because if people are saying it's harm for them. We have to investigate in a correct way, and then we have to educate the people. Okay, it's not harmful to you, or it's harmful to you, by the scientific way. The responsibility is from the side of the project proponent or the government. But normally, what happens is the government side of the project proponents comes to Menai and then they says, "Okay, if it's harmful to you, you have to prove that in a scientific way. I'm not a scientist; I'm a fisherman. So how can I? So they have to, but they are getting out of their track of the responsibility, and then they are passing the ball just everywhere. And then finally, they says, "These, this, these are stories. They are not. They don't have scientific proofs. Then the responsibility is other side. They, the means, government or the project proponent should do scientific assessments, and then they have to, they have to compensate or they have to educate the people. But it's not happening. That's the main cause for the conflict, Dhananath Fernando 03:58 mr. Desen. Just to unpack for the for our viewers to understand the sequence of the issues, so you mentioned there are already about 30 wind turbines are completed Speaker 1 04:08 inside the Menai Island. Already 30 is complete inside the Dhananath Fernando 04:11 Manna Island. Inside inside Manna Island, there are 30 wind turbines already Speaker 1 04:15 completed Dhananath Fernando 04:16 completed under CEB the Ceylon Electricity Board, and you mentioned about floods at the beginning. So could you explain how? What's the connection between winter binds and flood? Speaker 1 04:27 Yes, sure. So even before that, we experience floods. Okay. But normally, for a for an annually, we have like 28 days of rainfall. Annually in manner. Annually. Dhananath Fernando 04:40 Only 28 days of rainfall. Maximum Speaker 1 04:42 28, and then something. And basically, Dhananath Fernando 04:44 just to so I'm sorry for interruption. So that basically means Manai is pretty much like a dry area. Only 28 days that you will have rainfall for the entire year. Yes, Speaker 1 04:53 and also Manai Island is a sandy island. So the rainfall we receive if it's intentionally. And then that means intestive rainfall. The flood may be last for one month, but now November we receive the rainfall, and then until April the flood is there. Dhananath Fernando 05:11 Right. Speaker 1 05:11 So the milestone what we have is the wind turbine before the wind turbine and the after the wind turbine we can we can discuss about that. So earlier it normally happens the natural rain, rainwater drainages was there from the Pesar. That means mid of the Mana Island towards the ocean. We have natural drain ways. Right. And then now, what happened is with the construction of the turbines, the access paths already filled up and then compacted, and also the culverts they put on that roadside to flow the water is very less. Sometimes it's already in the document. It says like I don't remember the exact number. It's like around 90, but they put only 30. Dhananath Fernando 05:56 Right. Speaker 1 05:57 So the flow is automatically blocked. So it's a construct constructional fault, or intentionally they did it, and then in in some ways people are telling that the construction base construction also blocking the drain drain water. But I'm not totally accepting the one. In somehow only under that line it blocks. But other than that, normally it can de percolate and it can go. But the intensive rainfall diver the waterways. Normally, it should goes to the ocean if it's blocked, and then it divert and it goes and stagnated in some places like small ponds. And then now at least three four years, the sedimentation and water leakage, everything is blocked. Now it's become a pool like water body. So it takes more than four five months to drain or it's vanish. Until that, the households in that area still they are experiencing the flood. So they can't live there. School childrens, workers, employees, and then they all should displace from that their homeland like home home like for six months. So the regular activities and their regular works and everything is destroyed, not only by the wind turbines but also. So that's the case. People are protesting. Already we have 30. Due to that, we have these issues. Until those issues are Dhananath Fernando 07:30 solved, Speaker 1 07:30 sold, we don't want new turbines. We know that already. You have EA reports. You have three different different reports, and you have permissions, licence. But most of them are not implemented. That's what the flood is there. Dhananath Fernando 07:45 Okay, understood, mr. Deason. Just for to understand. So thank you very much for that clarification. So when was these 30 combines, 30 turbines were like? When was the project was started? To the first question, and also how? I mean, is there after post construction evaluation? You mentioned about they have to do like about 90 calverts and drainage or whatever that number of units to make sure that it won't you know it won't flood or the there'll be proper waterways to you know to drain the water to the ocean. Is there? I mean, has there been like a post evaluation being done? And when was this project started? And were there any concerns at the beginning of the project? Speaker 1 08:31 It's a nice question because you know we also wonder whether they start these projects like 2018. They have they started in 2018. Yeah, okay. But around 2019, when they bring their parts, the spare parts, we was looking that oh, big containers are coming, Dhananath Fernando 08:48 right? Speaker 1 08:49 Big blades are coming. We don't know about these environmental impacts. What will be happens? Because we believe that there should be an EAA. So these people will be monitoring, or they those people will be comply with all the all the necessary suggestions and all the things, but soon after the construction finish and everything finish, after one year when the rainfall comes, only we we realise that it's it's disaster. Dhananath Fernando 09:16 Okay, Speaker 1 09:17 and then we were always we complaining to everywhere, but nobody is concerning about that. Some some officials comes in the DCC meetings too. But what they think is they are in the power. So they says we have the licence, we have that EAA, we have that one, this one. So we we have the rights to do, but the people have the rights to live there, right? So the conflict is there. Actually, the discussions now. Since now, when the new project starts, there should be community consultations. It's not happened. Dhananath Fernando 09:48 So even in 2018, before the project started, there were no community consultations. The cases, Speaker 1 09:53 maybe the project proponent know that if they explain everything, people will be against for that. So what they. They did is in different ways. They went to the school and they gave some books and then they get signatures and then only they put the headings. Dhananath Fernando 10:08 Right. Speaker 1 10:09 I'm not a part of that one, but normally wherever you go in Mana and normally all the civilians says same story. We have different projects like Shmoom Farm project happened in my village town, so same thing happens. Our signatures was misused. Likewise, here some churches they visit and then they give some donations, like and then they get the letters and then they are telling that okay, these these people or group of people agreed to have the wind turbines, and now if you go and ask the same people, they will say we don't know. They just come and they give something, and then they ask for the signature for that product or purpose, different purpose. That's what they did. So earlier, we also don't know this kind of impacts are there. Soon after, I'm a I'm a bird guide, right? You know, Manah is a paradise, but our energy minister doesn't know that it's okay. He says Mena is a stale land; it's not a bird paradise, but it's okay. So it's a different story. But Manah is a bird paradise, actually. So from November to April, these migrant birds living in Manau. So like 2015, we had 15,000 of flamingos, you know the flamingos, right? It's it's a magnificent bird, and then when it comes like 2018, 2020 number is getting reduced, and then now it's like last year only 1500 birds were there, and also the season was changed. Again, I'm coming here. The benchmark is the wind turbines. Before the wind turbines, we had enough. After the wind turbines, we have less. So I can say wind turbine is one of the cause to reduction of the number. Manna normally receive more than 200 and different species, and also more than 15 100,000 of birds, individual birds comes there. So this is the wind turbines construction is happening actually in the Central Asian flyway. So we have different different flyways all over the world. The Central Asian Flyway is a significant and also it's a it's a rich bird corridor, so it starts within the hemisphere and it finishes within that. Sri Lanka is like within the one tropical region, so it's a specific, meaningful, biodiversity rich pathway. And then we construct wind turbines in the same line, and then we are telling that once the birds comes, the turbine stops. They says, "I don't believe it because you know, if a vehicle goes in a speed, if they found a bird and then if they stop, it's not stops there, right? The collusion should be there, or minimal impact will be there. So, kind of technical explanation they are giving, but it's not happening in the real field. So, myself and our people are afraid about that. If even new wind turbine construction happens, the disaster will be more more than that. Whatever now we are experiencing. So what we are requesting the authorities and the government is first they have to solve the problem related to the existing 30 wind turbines, and then they have to they have to compromise, or they have to give us the surety the new construction of the wind turbine will not have the same issues of that existing one, and also the people our people, are telling that okay, due to this wind turbine construction, we have less catch of fish. So government should have the data, what happened before and what happening is now. They can focus the future. Government they don't have the past data, so it's their fault. They should have, and then they are telling that you have to prove it in scientific way. I'm not a scientist. Again, the same thing. If a fisherman he just went to school like grade five or six, and then he is a fisherman. If he become like a scientist and he don't want to fish there, right? So the government statements are very silly, and then they are just passing the responsibility to others. Dhananath Fernando 14:24 Okay, just to again take the conversation forward, I'll come to some of the issues that you mentioned. So now, now there are 30 wind turbines. Are there any additional projects also being planned, or was it the concern? Is your request is to already there's 30 being built, do something or like improve the water drainage system, so at least you won't have floods. But I'm not sure how that problem is going to only like you have multiple issues. You have a flooding issue. You have a fish catchment issue. You have a birds issue, and yeah. So you can flooding. Probably you'll be able to solve it by increasing. I do not know. I haven't. I haven't been there. I have. Seen it, but how do you recommend to solve it? I mean, is there a reasonable solution that you would like to propose, or what is the story? Speaker 1 15:08 Very simple. People who are suffering due to this flood, the officials should go to place, and then they have to inspect, and they have to coordinate with the community, and then they have the solutions. Dhananath Fernando 15:20 Right. Speaker 1 15:20 Very simple. They they know what Dhananath Fernando 15:22 sort of solution, if I may ask. Speaker 1 15:23 You have to. Is Dhananath Fernando 15:25 it like a you know? Is it a is it a is it a relocation or is it that you need some? I mean, are they expecting some compensation for the damages that has been done, or whether it is like completely relocation, or whether it's improving the infrastructure. What is the Speaker 1 15:43 normally actually the the drainage was blocked. That's the main reason. So they can improve the. They can improve that. Yeah, and then normally the people don't want to relocate. But sometimes, some of the families maybe. I don't sure. Sometimes the drainage can't be improved to reduce the flood, and then one or two families can be relocated. I don't know, but the investigation should be there at that point of flooding area, and also in the season. Dhananath Fernando 16:12 Right. Speaker 1 16:13 The November from the April from November to April is a season scene happens, but whenever the researchers comes, they are coming in the dry season. They don't know what's happened actually. Dhananath Fernando 16:23 Right, and also just to clarify, now this project started in 2018. Yeah, from like it's completed in 2023 Speaker 1 16:32 19 and like 2021. They they completed. Yeah, they completed. Dhananath Fernando 16:36 And is there an indication like from which year this flooding started after just start 2018, or was it because Speaker 1 16:43 last three years? Dhananath Fernando 16:44 Last three years, okay, Speaker 1 16:45 from 2021 to yeah, okay, Dhananath Fernando 16:48 and also so what is the population impacted? Like how many families or how many people are we discussing about as as an impact as a direct impact? If from this Speaker 1 17:00 direct impact is like 10 to 15,000 people. Dhananath Fernando 17:03 10 to 15,000 people, Speaker 1 17:04 and then again suburbs people also they are they also experiencing, but not the CVA level. But it's happened. So if new projects comes, and then they also will be experiencing the same things. So we can say like 15,000 direct impacted, and again another 15,000 is similarly like maybe maybe in the prone area they will be in the future. Dhananath Fernando 17:27 Also now, what is the conversation about the new projects and what we saw on news yesterday or like before the the day before that we record this conversation was that there was a conversation between the president and the religious leaders in the area, and there is some agreement that the projects are moving forward. I don't want to go into politics, but what is the latest on the conversation, or what has been agreed, or what has been what has been that being you know discussed? Could you shed some light on this? Speaker 1 17:58 It's I think ninth, right? They they released in the newspaper the the things happened in eighth and then the news released on ninth in an online newspaper called Murasil and then they they said that the the the bishop and the president came for an agreement but again in the ninth in the evening bishop had a conference, press conference, and he said that he never accept anything, he never signed anything. The news was fake, and then now they are planning for a legal action against to that newspaper because the name of the bishop and also the government and the president's name also spoiled. So they are going in a different direction to file a case on them, so Bishop said that it's it's not true. Dhananath Fernando 18:44 It's not true. So Speaker 1 18:45 they don't agree for that. Dhananath Fernando 18:46 Okay. Okay. Also, want to understand. So you mentioned something very interesting that at the beginning of the project, you really did not know the probably the height of the wind turbines and this and the the the blades, the the length of the blades, and all that. So, what was I mean? You also said there were no pre consultation. It was just like distributing some leaflets, so on and so forth. So, for the for the new projects, is it only mean on the wind? Is the government is looking at, or are there any other development projects has also been discussed in in Manna district? Speaker 1 19:25 Now, what we are protesting for that is we know wind turbines also already constructed, and then that means extension paces are there. So already 30 is constructed inside Manna Island. Another six is outside of the Manha Island, nearby the Wankale area. So again, it's nearby the Bird Century, and then now other four plus 10 is ongoing projects. So we are against for that. First of all, they have to stop everything and they have to solve this existing problem, and then they can come for a conversation whether they are doing. Or not. Other than that, another 53 is there. That one proposed Adani, but now the Adani groups of companies is not here. But the projects will be led by some other individuals, maybe in the future. This is only the term of wind turbines. And then again, that mineral sand mining. There are two, three different companies. They have the exploration licence and then still they are doing the exploration. So GSMB approved their licence, like Titanium Science Limited in Australian based company, and then now they drilled all over the mana and then they mapped. They have map 3D map about where how much quantity, what kind of mineral is there? How they can process on it? Everything they did, but a president says that okay, I will not allow this mining project in MENA. So if president says like okay, it will be stopped. Still, the the office Titanium Science Limited offices functions in Manna, so we don't believe it. So whenever he want to, he he he stops. He have to guess at it. Manna is not for the mining, and then simple right. Only one signature, but they are just doing politics. In one way, in the parliament he says a thing, and then their colleagues who represent Mena says different things, and then bishop comes and meet the president, and then bishop bishop or the president they don't they not release this discussion. What happened? But third party somebody else released some fake news. So we have to find that person who is this within the presidential secretary. Somebody has leaks something, right? So this kind of politics are there. So that means splitting the people, mana people' strength is there. So they are trying to split, and then they can go for their projects. I hope so. That's what they are doing in the terms of politics, Dhananath Fernando 22:01 also want to understand since you are an environmentalist. Now, is there a middle ground here that you can agree? I'm just asking because compared to now, when it comes to wind power, what generally the environmentalist says it is it is a renewable source which is better than coal or diesel. So, in that sense, there's environmental friendly, but the concerns are it affects the birds. It it has a flood issue. It has a fisherman catchment challenge. Is there a middle ground that comes up from as a community solution? Because in a way, it's also supporting renewable. But is there a way that is there a solution that you foresee, maybe, or like what is the conversation amongst the community to solve this issue? Speaker 1 22:49 So, Mana is like four kilometre width and only 30 kilometres length, a small island. Maybe for Sri Lanka, it's a big one, but in the global context, it's very small island. So, if you construct a wind turbine on a one shoreline, and then even the species and the ecosystem will be moving. If it's getting disturbed, it will move further. And then again, if you are building another wind turbine in the other coastline, so it will be packed in the mid. And then again, two lines of other construction happens. So nowhere else the ecosystem survives. Ecosystem means including us, right? So we can't survive there. So what I prefer or I propose is go for the mainland and find a location where people don't live, and then less environmental impacts and no ocean. So we don't want to talk about the fish catch and all the things, and also neglect these protected areas like sanctuaries and national parks, and then they can go for a different area. But when they select a location, first they have to go to the community who own the land. They have to discuss, and then sometimes community may be accepting. Okay, this is even harmful for us, but we can sacrifice. We can go for a win-win situation. This kind of compensation or this kind of agreement we can have, and then we can do. First of all, community consultation is must. In Manhattan, it's not happened, and then when the community stood up, and then they talk to the authorities. These these things are happening, so we have to negotiate. The authority says no, we have power. So that's what this conflict is still in the stage. Just simple, go and discuss. Dhananath Fernando 24:33 Okay, okay. I think one possible solution is you do the proper stakeholder consultation. You ask them what are the challenges and all that? On the other side, in your suggestion, if they move the turbines to the mainland, then I think the probably the argument from the other side would be then the wind flow may not be strong as it is where it is located at the moment, or is there any data or anything available though the wind flow is the same as the as that stretch. That already the turbines are there, or even if you go to the mainland, do you do you think or is any data available that the wind flow is the same in the mainland as well? Speaker 1 25:08 No, the the priority wise government gazetted some energy zones. So the first one is the in the mainland in the hill country, in the hill. In the hill country, sorry. Dhananath Fernando 25:18 Yes. Speaker 1 25:18 So why they are not constructing these things on the hill country, because more expenses are there. So the transport and all the things that that's what they are not selecting those things. It's okay. We can we we can accept it. Same wise. So the thing is the profit. The private companies they seeks more profits. Normally companies seek profit. That's okay. And then, if you want to earn money, and then if you are destroying the ecosystem or destroying the livelihood of the local people, you have to compensate them. So, for that, you have to have to maintain a good relationship with them. If you say I have the power, and then people say we have the rights. If you say okay, we have to discuss. People say, "Okay, we can discuss, and that's the only way. And then you can go for a cumulative activity, or you can hire researchers like whoever the community suggests, and then whoever you believe, you can put them together, and then you can do the EAA, and then people will be believing, right? Okay, okay. Community people also maybe some sort of people can involve, or some sort of them can monitor that. Some have the knowledge, so can kind of thing can be happen. So for an example, EAA is prescribed by environmental central environmental authority, and then chairman of the Central Environmental Authority has been arrested for bribing. How many EIA report he could pass? So all the reports. Now we have the question. So he is bribed. That means he is a wrong person. And then how can we believe this EAA report signed by him is fully following all the rules and regulations. And if even the projects are not finished, it's okay. We can revise the EAA. If the project is finished, can we remove all the project component again? No, right. So, so conflicts are there. Dhananath Fernando 27:17 Also, now how many zones the government has identified. You mentioned about a mainland zone, and there's also somewhat near the sea. So, how many zones? And has all the zones been conducted environmental impact assessments or EIA? Or while you have you raised some questions on the credibility of the EIA, when was this EIA had taken place, or give us some picture of like how many zones? Speaker 1 27:47 Like in the mainland, I mean, in the hill country, there's a one, and then down south is a Hambando is another hub. Again, it falls from Putlam Kalpiti up to Jaffna. Again, Mulatiu they don't they don't suggest the one so up to Mena line they have construction lines already constructed wind turbines are there in the north near Palai it's like 18 or something I don't remember the exact number but again nearby Punarin the place called Tanangkalap we have eight turbines and then again in Mana is 30 inside the island and six outside the island, and then proposed things are there. So why they are not constructing these things in Hamudote? Dhananath Fernando 28:30 Okay, got it. And but for the Manha ones, they have done the EIAs. But you have the questions about the credibility of Speaker 1 28:36 the EIA. Ah, I I have to add one thing. So Mana is a bird price, so EAA is happening. So ontologyist, that means bird specialist, should be included. Can you name a bird specialist in Sri Lanka? You know anybody? Dhananath Fernando 28:53 I don't. I mean, I don't know whether he's a bird specialist, but the only person that I know is Dr. Rohan Pithyugoda. Speaker 1 28:59 He is a lawyer, right? Professor Kotagama. Dhananath Fernando 29:04 Professor Kotagoma, sorry, yes. Yeah, Speaker 1 29:05 he's a bird specialist. Why he is not included in that EEA committee? Dhananath Fernando 29:09 Okay. Speaker 1 29:10 And then Professor Sambadna, he's a bird specialist who is working more than six, seven years in Manar. Why he is not included, so the people whoever says truth will not be included. Whoever supports, they are there. My question is now I am a project proponent, and then I need to do an EAA for my project. So I am hiring you. I am paying for you, and then how you understood my question, right? Yeah. Dhananath Fernando 29:42 So then I am in a way. You should be aware of that. Okay, got it. And also to understand now what what are how many other projects are in the pipeline? And there was a conversation about, I mean, what what yeah, what is the status of those projects? Are the government is considered. I mean, okay, we have the power and moving forward, or whether is it on hold, or what is happening at the moment at the ground? Speaker 1 30:07 There's a line of projects, right? 2030 and then 2050. There's the two targets set up. There should be a highway from India to Tringo is the main main picture. For that, they have to purchase or grab the land for the highway, and also they need the energy to transfer to India. The high tension lines what they are constructing is more capable than whatever electricity we use. So the reason behind is excess energy will be transported to India, so that's what they are using. 240,000 kilowatts cables they are using. It's a very big for Sri Lanka, and then they are doing again sand mining. So Australian company they are interested very much, and some Indian companies call mass minerals metal, and some different different companies comes and go, but Titanium Sands Limited is the main one, and also again we have oil deposits, fossil deposits. So that's also in the exploration state Dhananath Fernando 31:12 and Speaker 1 31:12 southern part of Manna Island, and then again yeah the highway construction, wind turbines, sand mining minerals, mineral mining, and also the oil exploration. This will be in order. They will be in the future. These things will be happening. Dhananath Fernando 31:28 Happening when it comes to wind power. What are the any other projects that is in the pipeline additional to the 30 built already Speaker 1 31:36 already 30 built and then inside the island, outside the six and then a four, according to my knowledge, is Salix. Yeah, they are building a four and plus another 10 for Haley's. So these are current progressive productions. And then is it Dhananath Fernando 31:57 moving forward or is it on hold? Yes. Speaker 1 31:58 Now president says we will discuss and do. Still, the construction is happening. Dhananath Fernando 32:03 Construction is. Or Speaker 1 32:04 people are protesting. Whenever the vehicle bring the parts, we go front to stop. Police comes and chase us. The parts goes, and then again we comes and meet president. President says, okay, we will stop it. What is happening Dhananath Fernando 32:18 there? Okay, and is it why? Just to understand, generally these what I what I heard was generally these wind turbines are I mean they are quite tall and these I mean the blades are quite extensive. So do they transport it by the by the ocean or do they come through the landline? They Speaker 1 32:35 bring it through the land lines, specifically modified equipments. Dhananath Fernando 32:41 Right. Speaker 1 32:42 So the vehicle is very much long, and also the blade carries like the blade only can be rotated. Vehicle is rotating in a different way, so they have edge. So it's a specific equipment, Dhananath Fernando 32:52 right? Okay. Just also want to understand how come the fisher, I mean the the the fisheries catchment declined. I mean, is there a way? I know you are not a scientist. You mentioned that, but is there a? I mean, at least a hypothesis how we can relate it with wind. Like, what happened? Speaker 1 33:11 Basically, vibration chases these organisms, right? Whatever it is. So, like, normally from the shoreline. That means normally from the construction side, around 900 metres, the vibration can go. The much farther is 900 metres. The we have to understand the thing. Like we are not talking about the deep sea fishing. We are talking about the you know the marl right? Yeah. It's offshore ocean nets. People in this beach and then they just grab the nets. It's like within 100, within 400, 500 metre. So this wind turbines vibration chases the fish away. So the people working traditionally for more than 50 years they lose their catch, and also the shadow effect when the blade circulates like in front of you. If I move an object in in a periodic interval, and then you will be getting mad. What is happening this like? So with the shade defect, people the fish will be chased at least for one kilometre. So now the people who are doing the offshore portions, that means model, they don't have catch. That's that we says we reduce in the fish catch, not the deep sea one. That's normally happens. Dhananath Fernando 34:26 Okay, and is there? I mean, what is the next step from as an environmentalist point of view, and from the community, is there a next step that being discussed, or whether it's always? And we have also what we see is again, as I mentioned, I haven't been there. I haven't seen the site. What we all see is what is reported on news, and also we want to make sure that what is reported is the reality. As that's why we wanted someone like you because you have been in the ground, you have seen it, and also the conversation was about the, I mean, brutality being used by the. Forces against the protest. I just wanted to also understand that you mentioned a little bit about it, but what is the sentiment there for our understanding? Speaker 1 35:10 We are fighting for our rights and for our future generation. But the officers are doing their duties. We are protesting. We want to stop the vehicle, so that's what we were in the road. But police officers, their duty is to make a way for the vehicle. That's ordered for them. But the time of the incident, I don't sure whether who intentionally start this brutality. But it's happened in in the videos. I I seen that police officers bringing a person, and then police officers chasing the father, so these things are actually, you know, we are fighting for our rights. We are also Sri Lankan, right? Sri Lankan citizen. So we have our rights. So that should be protected by the government. But the government says we are for all of us, all of the people, for all the citizen, we don't think so. Here, the president says we are temporarily stopping everything. Same day in the early morning, the vehicle moving with the part. When we are on the road, police chase us. So transparency must be there. Dhananath Fernando 36:21 Also, when it comes to the the mainland, the you've mentioned already the the other two projects. I'm particularly speaking about the wind. Speaker 1 36:29 Yeah. Dhananath Fernando 36:30 Wind power projects. Where are those supposed to be built? Is it in the in the ocean front or whether it's in the mainland? Speaker 1 36:38 It's a nice question. So, Manar is an island like 30 kilometre length, and then the first project is the southern beach, 30 turbines already there, and now the four turbines also being constructed the same southern beach side. The plus 10 means it comes the second line. So again in inside the island, and then the Adani's proposed 53 will be coming in the northern stretch of the beach, and the second line. So finally, we will have four parallel lines of wind turbines, totally 30 and 44, like 100, around 100 wind turbines. Dhananath Fernando 37:19 Right. Speaker 1 37:19 So the Manor Island will be a wind farm, Dhananath Fernando 37:22 right? And Adani project hasn't been. I mean, it was discussed, but it is not moving forward. What was the final agreement on? Speaker 1 37:30 Cases now. Adani withdrew his quotations. That means his power because we have filed some cases against the cost of the product, the project is very high, or the the electricity purchase agreements and the bribe, those things were there, but we don't talk about these environmental issues on that case. It was a different now. Adani is not there, but project purport locations are there, and this you know these land acquisitions are there. Everything is there. So maybe in the future, I'm afraid personally. Maybe in the future, government can award those things to some other companies. Sometimes Adani can driven some different companies like your sister companies, and then they can own the same projects. Dhananath Fernando 38:17 Correct. So my final, your what your what are your final thoughts? Like, what is a reasonable solution? Being an environment is also being a Sri Lankan. There's an environment challenge on one side. At the same time, probably the government may be thinking on the renewable side and the need for production of low cost energy on the other side. Is there a way that benefits can be distributed to Mana, or is there a what sort of a solution? Any final thoughts on that? And what would be the next step? And how do you see this is unfolding in the future? Speaker 1 38:52 In 2028, President says we will meet a huge energy shortage. I believe in that because all the industries are growing. Many households consuming more electricity. So we have to educate the people how electricity production is demanded and wherever it impact on the environment. So we have to reduce the consumption. It's the first thing, and then green energy is a must, and then that's what only we we we can't use more and more coal or more and more fuel to burn and pollute the atmosphere. I'm I'm not with that, but again, development means it should be a sustainable development. So it it would be beneficial for the community who are living on that areas, so even you have some impact. First of all, you have to discuss with that people. Sometimes, if I am telling that my catch is my fish catch is reduced, and then if you are laughing at me, and then I will never come for a compromise with you. First of all, if you. You are not a fisherman. You don't know about that, so you have to come there. You have to discuss. You have to feel it. You have to experience it, and then only you can come for a decision. But the people coming from Colombo, that means from the authorities, to Manar to discuss, they are coming with the already prepared agenda. They come and then they asking, okay, we can renovate some roads. We can build houses. We can. They already decide. That's not the way. They have to communicate with the people, and then commonly both sides should decide same thing. Whatever the people coming from headquarters has already decide. Same as people decide. Okay, we are post. So it's not a discussion; it should be discussed, and then finally both parties come for an agreement. Other than that, it will not be solved. Whatever the power government used, maybe government can use police and everything, and then you know there are many ways. There are many many ways, but still people are fighting for their rights. You know, many struggles earlier we had many, and then now it's it's solved. It's not solved, but it's finished. Maybe, so we have to go for a go for a real solution. Other than that, if you are threatening us with your power, and then just thing is, if we all the Mena people come and block the Mena bridge, and then what will happens? Or it it should be discussed in one table, and the decision should be made at the same table. So we are protesting in Mena. So the decision made in parliament will not work. If you are taking a decision in the parliament, at least the the decision should be should be explained the protesting area by authorities. What happens is, normally I feel like they are thinking they are in the power, but that not their power. We gave the power for them, right? Even the parliament MPs, we elect them. Even the president, if I am not voting for him, still since he is my president, right? So he should consider my request also. But what happening is it goes other than the democracies? goes like a politics. Whoever votes them, whatever they says, if president asks that or if president listen to that, it's not a democracy. We can't go forward, and then that will be the starting point of the collapse of the government. We are not against the government personally. I am not against the government because government doing many good things, but nature and the environment and the ecology ecosystem is must. So some of their ministers or some of their officials, some of their supporters don't know that. That's what they are writing many things. Wind is good, but cyclone is bad, right? Even comes with the wind. So we have to use the energy in a proper way, in a in a in a sustainable manner to develop Sri Lanka, and also we have to protect the citizens whoever suffering due to these projects. So that's my my final request for the government, Dhananath Fernando 43:19 mr. Edison. Anything that I could have asked or I should have asked, but I did not any thoughts like anything that we haven't covered in the conversation. That you have any other thoughts, any in any final final thoughts which haven't been covered so far in this conversation. Speaker 1 43:37 Again, same thing again and again. If I am an environmentalist, or if I am protesting for environmental conservation, I should be a responsible person on that. I never throw a polythene or plastic in the roadside. And if you want to talk about environmental, if you are protecting protesting about against the environmental depletion, you should practice that first. So I kindly request whoever watching this, you practice first. Don't throw the polythene and waste in everywhere. Likewise, you can conserve the environment, and then that's what the nature exists. We we have we are here to use the nature, not to. This is not our. That means this is a. How can I say? You Dhananath Fernando 44:24 mean to say that this is not like we we don't own it that we have to we have a we have a right to translate to the next. We don't have a Speaker 1 44:31 we don't have a rights, but we have the chance to use Dhananath Fernando 44:34 it. Okay. Speaker 1 44:35 Some of us still thinking that this is ours. This is not ours. We belongs to that. Dhananath Fernando 44:40 Okay. Speaker 1 44:40 So we are here. We have to go and we are part of the ecosystem Dhananath Fernando 44:43 and not the. We have to leave it as it Speaker 1 44:46 is. That's what. Dhananath Fernando 44:46 Okay, mr. President, thank you so much for your thoughts and coming all the way from Manna and explaining all these issues in three languages as a public policy think tank. We are for electricity. Sector reforms, and we know the need for power in moving forward for electricity. But again, we want to bring all sides of the story, and we need to understand the importance of the ecological system, and that's why we wanted to have this conversation. And thank you very much for explaining all that. And we are wishing all the very best for all the work, all the good work that you do, and as we mentioned, you can you can watch this content on all three languages because we are very lucky to have mr. Desen because he can explain it in English, Singhala, and Tamil. So this is the English conversation. If you want to check the similar discussion in Tamil, please check Advocata Kural, and the same will be available in Singhala. He explaining in his own Singhala in Advocata Plus. So thank you very much, and please subscribe all three channels. And also don't forget to become an Advocata Insider. We have a early bird offer till 14th of October. If you are watching this programme after 14th of October, then it would be 12,000 rupees per year, so that's just 1000 rupees per month, and we have multiple programmes under Advocata Insider Programme. So please join with us, and that is the way that we bring such free content and news and the stories and insight, even from as far as from Manna. So please join Advocata Insider Programme and make sure that you follow us on all social media platforms: TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn. We are our presence is there across all the platforms. So we'll see you with a similar kind of a conversation on Advocata Studio next week. Transcribed by https://otter.ai