Speaker 1  00:11
Welcome back to another conversation on Advocata Studio. Today I have a very eminent guest with me, mr. Prakash Kumar, the Chief Executive Officer at the Vadvani Centre for Government Digital transformation. mr. Kumar brings with him over four decades of remarkable experience across public service, technology, and digital governance. His career has taken him from being an IAS officer to leading the Goods and Service Tax Network in India as its CEO. He has also held key roles in the private sector, such as holding the titles of senior advisor at Deloitte and national technology officer at Microsoft. A warm welcome to you, mr. Prakash, to Sri Lanka and to the Advocata Studio, mr. Kumar. You've had a remarkable journey spanning the private sector and the public sector. You've headed India's very ambitious GSTN network as its CEO, and also you have a team of your own now who's creating AI-driven solutions to digitise governance and to make governance more citizen-centric. Recently, Sri Lanka had its budget readout for the year 2026, and about 30 billion has been set aside for national digitization efforts. How do you think a country like Sri Lanka should approach this. Do you think there are any lessons we can look to?

Speaker 2  01:26
So first of all, thank you for inviting me and giving me this opportunity to talk to you. The word, I mean, the question which you asked was actually answered today in AI Summit by Dr. Hans, who explained what exactly they are going to do, and that's the path we also went on. First, to have the required digital public infrastructure identity. Then is your how do you make payments to people directly in their account? So that's a payment system. Then you have certificates, etc. like your school passout certificate, birth certificate. Can we create something where you can keep

Speaker 3  02:05
it

Speaker 2  02:06
every time? You don't have to provide that certificate to a department. You go for service. You just say, "This is a certificate in my locker, and I am giving my consent to use

Speaker 4  02:17
it.

Speaker 2  02:18
That's it. Now, these three were done in last more than 10 years in India, so that forms the basic infra on which then you have built various applications which will use this, like for identity, for payment, for all the certificates which are there, so that it reduces the load on people. So that's one approach which the correctly the government is adopting, and that's what they are going on. And then comes your different department, different sectoral applications, and generally they we all go for those departments where the interface is higher, meaning agriculture. Now farmers, our farmers need help, and AI is a tool today which can help them starting from what do I sow in my field. If you tell the tool or train it, this is the type of soil I have. This is where it is located, so it knows what the weather pattern is, and then it can say, okay, out of three crops, this is the best return you will get. Otherwise, our farmers, whatever their fathers, forefathers were doing, they continue to do that so that you get better return. That's one. Now, once you have sold the crop, you need advisory when to apply fertiliser, when to apply pesticide, how to identify if something has some pest attack is there. So, can you take a photograph, you upload into the system, and system tells you you your paddy has this disease, and this is what is required to apply. Next comes your large, little larger plot. Now, what happens today? Our farmers will apply pesticide in the entire farm, whereas maybe only small part is impacted. So how do you find that out? So nowadays, now already some of the districts in our country have already started using it. Drone, you fly drone, camera takes photograph, it is analysed, and it tells you in this farm these are the areas where attack has already happened, then another application tells what is to be applied. Use another drone to go and spray there. Now you ask me, why take this so much of pain? Two things. One, you are applying pesticides only where it is required. Your requirement of pesticides goes down. You are not overusing pesticide, which is a big problem in many of our countries. Second, farmer or one of his farm worker, he was doing it, and these are very hazardous things to do. Lots of people have lost their life or life gets shortened. Now it's done by, so. Government programme has been started in India called Drone Didi. Didi means elder sister. So it's basically what Prime Minister did was to give drone to one lady in a village, and she then supplies this as a service. Now they are working on a scheme where they can provide this kind of thing, not by government, but by drone manufacturer, a bank of financial institutions. They come together, create this. You will need someone to maintain that spare parts and all that service. So, in general, one village will have three people: one, the drone deity, and two people to manage it. So, you are creating three additional jobs. So, that's the way AI is not reducing jobs. It actually opportunity to create, and also ensure that your farm output is optimised. You get better output. So that's the way DPI. Then comes sectoral, like you do something for education. Yeah, Sri Lanka is way ahead in education and all, but many countries have this problem where children in age group of six to 12 can't even in class six or class five they can't do two digit multiplication or three digit multiplication because their basics are fundamentals are not there, so they call it foundational literacy and numeracy. So AI tools are being used to teach them. Very simple. It comes on a smartphone. Some few sentences will come. The child has to read. The tool listens, analyses, and tell child if the pronunciation is not correct how to pronounce it and things of that sort. Similarly, gives small sum to do, explains how to do it, and then the child gives answer. He tells whether it's correct or not and how to do it. So they will next step will be sectoral. That's what again I heard Dr. Hans, talking about

Speaker 1  07:01
right. Okay, perfect. I'm also going to move on to the GSTN. I mean, you've been the architect of it. I think it'll be a missed opportunity if I don't question you on that, sir. I'm just really trying to understand. Could you explain to us the impact that the GSTN has had in terms of transparency, in terms of improving the tax base, in terms of really making taxation more accessible to the general public and to businesses, how has it really transformed the taxation landscape in India?

Speaker 2  07:34
So before GST, we had two major tax systems. One was by central government, which was service tax and excise, and other one was VAT by states. Apart from that, we had 1415, other smaller taxes which were implemented by mostly states or the local bodies like municipalities and all. So this was leading to tax on tax, tax getting exported, and thus our product was getting. I mean, it was not in a. It was disadvantageous position because you are adding tax, and you can't eliminate tax fourth stage or fifth stage because it's already been included. So that was one. Second, every state had different tax rates, different processes. So suppose you are a business which has company units in five states. They used to have five different tax teams sitting in five different places. Also, one state to another, part of the tax was embedded. You cannot refund. Don't get refund. Like we used to call it central sales tax. So 2% 1% whatever, depending on time, it it was changed. So all these deficiencies were had made our system very very complex, and our borders between two states was almost like an international border, trucks had to stop. They needed permit to go to the other side and all that. In one go, they have they eliminated all this and made a very transparent system where all taxes paid on your input you can claim as input tax credit.

Speaker 1  09:18
Okay, okay.

Speaker 2  09:19
So now what happened? They suddenly the whole country became one market, one tax, one process for the whole country.

Speaker 1  09:26
Right.

Speaker 2  09:27
Now it helped the businesses a lot because they had they don't had to have all these systems or complications of moving things from one place to another. Then taxes getting embedded into your price. All that has been eliminated. So this has led to huge buoyancy. If you've seen the tax collections, it has become more than two and a half times since 17.

Speaker 1  09:53
Okay, so it has had a positive impact on revenue. Heavily, heavily. Okay.

Speaker 2  09:58
Also, the tax base also increased. You know why? Because if you want to sell some to someone, any industry or any other unit, they will ask, "Do you have GST registration? Because they they have to pay taxes, and they want input tax credit. So the lots of formalisation has happened. Lots of things which are happening in informal side has gone into formalisation. So collections have gone up, and with that, the government was, in fact, government has reduced the tax rate on large number of items. Initially, we had two rates of taxes. One was 12% other was 18% General rate of tax. Now they have made it 15, and then next one is five. So lots of other tax rates have been eliminated, so so yes, expansion, higher yield, and better and improved service for people,

Speaker 1  10:50
right? Services

Speaker 2  10:51
basically people.

Speaker 1  10:52
Can I also ask you, sir, how long did it take for this process to materialise to the point that it is a? That's an excellent

Speaker 2  10:58
question. See, it's a federal country, and this power was with states and central. So they started working on it almost 20 years ago, and they constituted a group of state finance minister. They discussed over the years, and then finally they agreed. And central government also played a role to give them that confidence that because earlier they used to fix rates, now it's the council which fixes rate for the whole country. So individual states' power to tax rate fixation has gone. It is now with the central body which is doing, and also they cannot change on their own will to, if they want more taxes, simply increasing tax doesn't lead to that. So it took quite some time, and 2017 we were able to implement it. But there has been it has been very positive outcome, especially that total tax collections are concerned. Exports people get refund on its own without even applying for that's the way we design the system so we have integrated with customs so if you export it and we get that confirmation from customs automatically system to system your refund process gets done and after filing of your return within 15 days, you get in your account.

Speaker 1  12:25
Right. So it's an integrated system. Integrated system. So

Speaker 2  12:29
customs and GST has been integrated. Suppose similarly, if you are importing, you pay GST on import.

Speaker 1  12:34
Right.

Speaker 2  12:35
So you automatically it comes into your account. So you have paid. Now you can claim that as input taxes.

Speaker 1  12:40
Right. Right. Right. So also in terms of you know, you've spoken about the strategic thinking that goes into these AI-driven solutions. I just wanted to ask you whether there's a big gap between the capacity building in terms of translating these strategic thinking and these strategic plans into really kind of implementing them in government ministries and government departments with their eccentric inefficiencies and also limitations. How how do you kind of navigate that kind of really translating the strategic thinking into executing it through these limitations in capacity building?

Speaker 2  13:20
You know, any large organisation, whether government or private sector, bureaucracy comes in. And why do we need bureaucracy to run the system? So rules and regulations are made. This is how the system will be run. So we should not blame government only. I've seen large corporations. I've worked with some of them, and I've seen some of them from outside. Any large organiser, we have to make rules, and many times we become slave of our own rules. That's what happens. So changing things because people by nature are status quoist. So that happens. So then you have to show them how it can change, what impact it can bring, and that's a gradual process. It takes time, and also you need support from the top. So all our programmes we have seen, unless it is blessed by the topmost people in the government, it difficult to just push it. Even if when you are inside the government,

Speaker 1  14:20
right.

Speaker 2  14:21
So it's, but the good part is there are always some people who, who look at it, who understand, and then they help it. They take the initial steps, and things get done.

Speaker 1  14:32
Right. So when you navigate these challenges, how do you identify the root causes of these challenges? How do you kind of really, when you are faced with these inefficiencies, how do you course correct and find the root causes of these challenges?

Speaker 2  14:48
Root causes, most of the cases, it is by doing some analysis, the process flow analysis, how they are working today, and many times people. Don't know that because they follow a certain path, there are inefficiencies built into that. So all what the technologists call it business process reengineering. So that is that. So that's generally we used to do it in e-governance projects. So whenever you take up something, first you map the existing process, and you will see that there are lots of inefficiencies. Suppose suppose a licence is to be granted and five departments have to give approval.

Speaker 1  15:26
Right.

Speaker 2  15:27
Give you example. Restoration licence is to be given. You will need from police. You will need from municipality. You will need from health department. You will need from a department called legal metrology, and sometimes you need from traffic police. Now the old system was it will go first to one, then to the second, then to the third, fourth. It takes time. So when we started automation, I mean digitization, we said why should it? We can now send it to all five, and then get the and all five give in parallel, and then you can so you can bring down the time by one by five, so that's the way. So then they understand this. Oh yes, this can be done. So you have to show them that look, without compromising on the process, how changes can be made in the processes. And sometimes there are redundant processes because they were there 50 years ago. There is no need for do do that today. Tomorrow, suppose you have identity which is authenticated. There's no need to send it to a field level worker who will visit and find out whether you are living in this house or not.

Speaker 2  16:32
So that kind of thing. So business process reengineering is done to identify all the efficiencies, and then of course the government agency has to work on them. Agree that yes, this we can remove. So that's generally done in all our e-governance projects. AI project is concerned. There, here it's a new thing which everyone is now working on. Here, of course, some places we need to do BPR, but mostly the BPR has already been done because it was digitised. You need some data to work upon, so that's not a big problem here. But then here, taking care, ensuring that you are not biassed. I mean, your data is not biassed.

Speaker 1  17:12
Yeah, it is

Speaker 2  17:12
treating everyone equally.

Speaker 1  17:15
Okay.

Speaker 2  17:15
So the data sits. How do you

Speaker 1  17:17
ensure very sensitive things like that? How do you ensure that data is not biassed; that it's not manipulated. That excellent question. So,

Speaker 2  17:24
when you take samples, you have to ensure that you are taking samples from all categories of people, all geographies.

Speaker 1  17:34
Okay.

Speaker 2  17:35
So you should know. And I'm

Speaker 1  17:36
assuming that might be quite challenging in a country that is so big in. No, so you have

Speaker 2  17:40
to do that. There is no there is no escape from

Speaker 1  17:42
that.

Speaker 2  17:43
Otherwise, what will happen if you suppose take something and make it based on people from city? It may have some bias against the villagers. You take more samples from men, it may have bias against women. And we give an example in our training class: loans. If you take loan data of last 3040, years, there is an inbuilt bias against women entrepreneurs.

Speaker 1  18:07
Okay.

Speaker 2  18:08
Generally, they are not given. They were not given earlier loan.

Speaker 1  18:12
They were not given priority in terms of yeah because they were not

Speaker 2  18:15
going.

Speaker 1  18:16
Okay. And they were mostly

Speaker 2  18:17
looking after the home. They were not entrepreneurs. Okay. So they were not applying, so their numbers were less. Now, if you use that, so then we have to. So those are there are tools available which you you pass your data through that, and it can tell that there is a challenge here, or data is not equally coming from all the categories, subcategories, geographies, and things of that sort. So there are tools available which ensure that you're you are covering everyone, so that there is no inherent bias.

Speaker 1  18:49
Right now, that's an excellent point, sir. So this brings me back to another question that I wanted to ask you in terms of how these digital transformation efforts can ensure inclusivity and can make governance more accessible to the average person, to the average citizen. I know the Padmani Centre has built the Unified Citizen Engagement Platform. From my understanding, citizens are able to speak to this platform in their own native language. About 12 of those and their own dialects, in terms of to understand their eligibility to certain programmes, to access certain government programmes, and even in Sri Lanka, in terms of programmes such as the Asvasma, which I spoke to you before this podcast, Sri Lanka's flagship poverty alleviation and cash transfer programme, the eligibility criteria of it has there's an attempt to digitise it. It's being digitised at the moment. So my question to you is: How can Sri Lanka really look to initiatives such as this in terms of inclusing, in terms of ensuring inclusivity in these digitization efforts and large-scale national-level digital transformation efforts?

Speaker 2  19:59
So. Before we had unique identification system, we had similar challenge. There were lots of people who were ineligible; they were included, or there were people who were included with multiple names, same person, but changing the spelling a little bit, changing the address a little bit, writing father's name like Guna Saran and Sekaran Guna, something like that, so that because system will then take them as separate entities. So the first thing which was done was to use unique ID, and that's why your government is now. That's one of the priorities. You have national ID, but just to ensure that biometric and demographic is also added, so that unique, and then we were able to eliminate millions of such ghost cases. Then similarly, once you have done that, then next question comes: What is your criteria for inclusion?

Speaker 5  20:52
Yeah.

Speaker 2  20:53
Now that where technology can't play a role because you are defining, like in our case, it is income of the family. Now income of family is determined by based on how much land you have and whether anyone is working in government anywhere, any kind of enterprise. So generally, it is done by inspection. Someone goes and does it. So that technology cannot have much role, but of course. But then, if you are not included and you think that you should have been included, but you are very poor, you don't know how to use a phone.

Speaker 1  21:29
Yeah,

Speaker 2  21:30
can you just call up and say, "I'm so and so. This is what it is. This is my number, and this is my income. I should have been included. Please do something about. So your grievance gets lost. Now your voice has been heard. Something will action will start on that. They will have to look into that and close it. So that's one way of doing it. Second one was where this system is also. We have just started using it. One of the large departments to call up people who have taken benefits and ask them, did you receive

Speaker 1  22:03
it? Right. Okay.

Speaker 2  22:04
Because the the staff has reported that they got, but actually they got got it or not. Number one. Number two, did they get? Are they happy with the quality?

Speaker 1  22:14
Right.

Speaker 2  22:15
That's also very important. Government spend so much of money on these programmes, so they should get the benefit, and then if they have any suggests to improve. Now this is a very very powerful thing. You are asking people how it can be improved. You get voice of the people from the ground up, which is otherwise you have to hire some those who go to different places and write down what do you call enumeration, not enumeration, field survey teams. That's very expensive, time taking. Whereas we are just calling up and finding out, and then people are coming with some excellent suggestions inside, which government otherwise doesn't get. So that's what the tool is from both sides: citizen, government, and integrating citizens in the decision. And now, in fact, officers told us, "Oh, this is there. Can we also use it to train women entrepreneurs who are working in the village? That I need this. How do I do

Speaker 4  23:14
it?

Speaker 2  23:14
Yes, it can be done. I need yeah a loan, small loan. How do I get it? She can be told this is the way to do in her language, where to go, how to find out. So, I mean, there are immense possibilities once you have a mechanism by which people can interact with government or government can interact with people. Lots of new things can be done on top of that.

Speaker 1  23:39
Now that makes a lot of sense. So, in terms of Aadhaar, can you shed a bit more light in terms of how Aadhaar kind of is successful, or how it has been successful in its efforts at the moment in India, and how Sri Lanka can look to take notes from Aadhaar and its digitization process?

Speaker 2  23:59
So, Aadhaar is one of our fundamental digital public infrastructure, which has enabled people to have prove their identity. In fact, that was the basic thing when mr. Nilikani started it. That how can we enable people to prove their identity? That I am Prakash Kumara. Just tell me how do I prove it? Now, with that, they intend they started it, and just to ensure that the identity given to me, that number, is unique, they took not only my demographic data, which is

Speaker 3  24:31
my

Speaker 2  24:32
name, father's name, address, and all, but also age, but also my biometric, and not only my fingerprints, but also the retina, or I don't know what they call it. Retina, yeah. So fingerprint. The problem is, if you grow old or you are doing hard work, your fingerprint gets damaged. But this remains intact. Till you die, so that's the way they have done it, and many people have tried to break it, but no one has been successful. That's the very very unique. These three combinations: your 10, and then your retina scan. These are really unique, and once that has been done, that has become the base to you ensure that only mr. X or mrs. X gets that benefit. So, and we are using today Aadhaar every day. Few billion transactions happen on that, so whether you want a telephone connection, whether you are authenticating your many government applications where you go, you they say okay, just authenticate who you are, and then you get and return filing, income tax return filing. We just use Aadhaar.

Speaker 1  25:58
Okay. GST

Speaker 2  25:59
return filing. Most of the people they use Aadhaar,

Speaker 2  26:03
so that you identify that yes I am so and so who is signing this document, and that's it. So it has worked identification, and then lots of more things have been built on top of that. So it's a service which is now government provides to any ministry, any department, state or central government, and also to banks, also now to telephone companies. I mean telecom. And

Speaker 1  26:24
once again, how long did this entire process? Took some time. Quite

Speaker 2  26:27
some time. Okay.

Speaker 2  26:29
It was started, if I recall. We did work with them for because they had asked volunteers from industry, and I used to be in Cisco at that time.

Speaker 1  26:39
Okay.

Speaker 2  26:39
So I also worked with them. This was 2009 or so.

Speaker 1  26:43
Okay.

Speaker 2  26:43
Today, its coverage is almost every every one above five years of age is registered. I mean, they have an Aadhaar number, and every day, as I mentioned, large number of authentications are

Speaker 1  26:55
done. Okay. So I also want to touch this point where you said that you know you integrate people in the decision-making process through feedback, and I think that's very important because you have a system in place, and to ensure that this is smoothly flowing in time to come and in a consistent manner, feedback is very important. Could you could you give us a few more examples in terms of how this is done effectively? Maybe you know few other programmes in India because feedback becomes very important, right? You have because Sri Lanka is in that stage where we are looking to implement such programmes. Even so, we transitioned from Samudi to Aspasuma, and you know even we are in those initial stages. So if you could really kind of elaborate a bit more on how these feedback loops can really help systems to improve sustainably sustainably in the longer term.

Speaker 2  27:50
So, getting feedback basically tells you what is happening on the ground, whether you are getting the desired result or not, and helps you to make changes in your system. It's exactly like how the amplifier works. You must have seen on that stage there is another small speaker which listens and then it provides. And if it's higher, the volume is higher. It tells okay reduce it. If it's low, it tells increase it. So it's basically a small part of output is again sent to the input, based on which input the the amplifier works accordingly. These are all advanced systems where feedback works. So feedback works everywhere where you want to see that the output is within a desired limit, minimum and maximum. But how do you do any scheme or a programme where you say okay, we are giving so much, so many rupees to a family. So first thing is, are they getting

Speaker 3  28:49
it?

Speaker 2  28:50
Are they getting it time? Did anyone ask any money in between? Now, if large number of people in a particular area say they are not getting in time, or if it is not money, if it is say for example food grains are being given, the quality is bad. It's not that across the across the state or across the country it is bad. Only maybe certain areas, it gives you immediate insight into where the problem is and what the problem is, then, then the department has to take action so that that problem can be eliminated. So our government they call it closing

Speaker 1  29:31
the loop.

Speaker 2  29:31
So once you have identified, then you take some action, which means you you have closed the loop. But then you have to go back and ask that beneficiary, you had complained. The government department at the field says it has been done. Are you satisfied with

Speaker 4  29:49
it?

Speaker 2  29:50
Now that's the ultimate thing. Some of the state governments have done it in manual system. No AI, nothing.

Speaker 1  29:55
Okay,

Speaker 2  29:56
they have people filed it online or through more. Overlaps. It goes to the right person, officer. He has to write down after visiting and after taking corrective action, and then they pick up 5% cases from there and call up again that beneficiary or complaining that you had complained of damaged road in front of your house. Has it been repaired?

Speaker 1  30:20
Right. Okay.

Speaker 2  30:21
And if he says no, then the complaint is again opened.

Speaker 1  30:25
Right. And then

Speaker 2  30:26
it goes to the next officer. That your officer did not do a work. This is what has happened. You take major tax on that.

Speaker 1  30:32
I also wanted to touch on this point, John. Once again, capacity building and upskilling. How challenging has it been? Because we also before the podcast started, we also spoke about resistance, and I assumed you have been met with a lot of resistance in your efforts to when you initially started digital transformation. Just really wanted to pick your brain on the resistance that you may have met, and also challenges in terms of upskilling.

Speaker 2  30:59
So resistance is a very usual phenomena because of status quo. We all want to be in the state in which we are. So, if you try to do something new, people will be those who are impacted by it will be resistant to

Speaker 1  31:14
it

Speaker 2  31:14
for variety of reasons. Let's not get into that. Could be many reasons. Now, we need to first tell them what the benefits are, and many times what we have found. I mean, I personal experience, like when I was doing the sales tax computerisation for the first time, it had failed twice earlier. When I was bought, I brought, I was told that two times it has failed, but this time it should not. It should not fail. So we it's a lot of pressure. Yeah. So we did some analysis and to find out why it had failed earlier. A, they were trying to do it centralised. We are not doing the end person in the office who was handling the taxpayers. So we had clerks who were maintaining 21 different registers.

Speaker 1  32:00
Yeah,

Speaker 2  32:00
21. Yeah. So one return comes; they will enter that this date it has come. This is the last date, and another issue. This is the total turnover. This another issue. This is the tax because they have to compute like that. So we, I invited all of them separately and understood the pain points, and I saw the largest population was these guys front end, who are front ending with the taxpayer? We said we will take care of their pain first. So once I automate and I eliminate 21 registers, they said if you can do that, we are with you. Because this was a very very time taking thing. We did that first, and also made possible that it was entered at one location. They didn't have to do anything, and they used to get all the reports, which was supposed to be created in those 21. This is mid 90s. Right. At the closing date of return filing, next day we used to give them printed notices to those who had not filed. Okay. So they were so happy that go, and then the large number of people they were on our side. So once they have they are on our side, then their bosses they also fall in line. So that's the way we broke the whole system into multiple pieces and saw which is easier to carry, where the impact will be higher. When you are doing a computerisation office, first I mean any government office, you have to see first the internal where the internal resistance will come first, and where you you can bring some improvement, which will ease the pain there, because you have to have bring them on your side. If you try to force force feed

Speaker 3  33:41
it;

Speaker 2  33:42
it will not be easy to do it. So that's something we should take care. And then you say, okay, this is the guy whom we are serving. Now let's look at their pain, their challenges. How do we? And they will come with lots of good suggestions.

Speaker 6  33:57
This is

Speaker 2  33:58
what we need to do. So it's always we have to we we have to win the small small battles to win a war. I mean that's what normal. That's what normal you now, sir.

Speaker 1  34:13
As the CEO of Advani, I can see how your experience in the public sector and private sector you have really carried all of those experience to really inform what you're doing right now. Can you really tell me how that experience and journey has been like to be on both sides of the spectrum?

Speaker 2  34:30
I've never thought about it, but then since I was so much in love with use of technology for improving governance, that after working for two decades, I saw that I can also contribute it from outside, and then in a in a manner where I decide what to do.

Speaker 1  34:51
And you said this is completely pro bono as well. No, I'm talking about

Speaker 2  34:54
when I left. Right. Then I joined those organisations which were working for improving governance, and. This one I joined because again they are working in that field, doing capacity building of officers, especially in area of AI, so that we can make lots of changes if we can change some people in the government. Lots of life will be impacted. That's the basic philosophy. So, yes, I do bring anyone. I mean, based on your past experience, you work in the current organisation.

Speaker 1  35:25
No, thank you, sir. And I think we've been speaking for about 30 minutes to 45 minutes now. So I just really wanted to give you the liberty to leave us with some parting thoughts on digital transformation efforts, and also in terms of in Sri Lanka, I think we are in those initial stages of trying to step into that arena. So, any parting thoughts for Sri Lanka? Something we can look back to and think on.

Speaker 2  35:54
I mean, I'm not senior enough or experienced enough to tell a country how to go about it, but based on our experience, one should work on creating first the required building blocks, what we call digital public infrastructures, and that's what is being done. Simultaneously, we should also look at which are the important sectors, and though those that identification should not be done only by the government, it should also be done by taking people into confidence. That what is their priority first? After all, you are serving the people. So what is that? What which is the most painful thing today for people when they are interacting with government? That should be taken first, and second, and third. So some prioritisation. When you are doing prioritisation, have some mechanism so that you can consult people, know their pain points, and then identify. Okay, these are the 10 sectors we'll do first. Then these are next five or next 10 like that. So these are the two things. First, it's any being done. They have also identified sectors, but it's always good to involve people, get their inputs. What exactly? See, ultimately, government is there to serve people, and they should also understand what people want, not what many times we understand. I mean, I have been in government that I know what the problem is, but it may not be true in all the time. We should also understand, ask them, okay, what is your problem, and then ensure that those two are going hands in hands.

Speaker 1  37:29
Thank you very much, mr. Prakash. We spoke about digital transformation efforts, how strategic thinking should be and can be translated into capacity building and limitations surrounding it, and we also spoke about how digital transformation efforts can increase inclusivity in digital governance. Thank you very much for taking the time. Thank you for coming to the Advocata Institute, and we wish the rest of your stay in Sri Lanka would be a pleasant one. Thank you very much. Thank

Speaker 2  37:57
you very much for inviting me and giving me this opportunity.

Speaker 1  38:01
Stay tuned to Advocata Studio for more conversations such as this. Thank you, and see you again soon.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai