Dhananath Fernando  00:03
Hello, hello everyone! Welcome to Advocata Studio. We are going to discuss today again about tourism. Interestingly, we are recording this just after the India-Pakistan match. I'm sure everyone was interested about like how many private jets arrived, but there was a missing link. That's about the women participation in tourism. If you recall, we had a similar conversation with Malik Fernando in collaboration with MDF to discuss about how can we get more women participated in the tourism industry. Because as we all know, in Sri Lanka, overall, the women participation in labour force is quite low. At the same time, when it comes to, in particular, in the tourism industry, which has so many challenges, so we thought that it is an interesting timely topic, especially as everyone also speaks about the tourism industry on economic recovery and earning more and more dollars, and with cricket, so on and so forth. We thought this is the right time, just right time, to have another conversation about the future of women in Sri Lanka and the tourism industry. So, joining with me today is Dmitri Kureth, managing director of Jetwing Hotels, and Haysinth Gunawadhana, executive director at Jetwing. Welcome both of you for our podcast.

Speaker 1  01:23
Thank you, thanks, Donald. Thank you.

Dhananath Fernando  01:25
So, just wanted to discuss. I'll first start with Haysin because you have a very interesting career. I was told joined as a assistant receptionist,

Speaker 2  01:37
trainee receptionist, trainee

Dhananath Fernando  01:38
receptionist, and ranking up to the executive director, tell us like what happened? How did it happen?

Speaker 2  01:48
When I joined, it was in 1977, but I never dreamt of going up like that, you know. Because the thing is that era, it's not the tourism or we you used to call hotel. Hotel industry was not for women, but my my passion was to go fly somehow to be a hostess and all that. Right. So then my parents actually they are very broad-minded. My father has been abroad and to Canada and also it was not very difficult for me to join the industry. mr. Herbert Kurellet, Herbert Kure, just interviewed me at home, and then he asked me, "What do you want to do? Join tomorrow. From tomorrow, you can join. I said receptionist, but I didn't know anything about the hotel industry. So I said, "I'm receptionist. I thought maybe you can just talk to somebody, and then so from how that's how I started the when I was at Blue Ocean Beach Hotel, now it's the Jetwing. We call it Jetwing Blue. That is our first hotel, which was built by late mr. Kure with six rooms, and then it went on. By the time I joined, it was they had about 60 rooms or so. So that's how, and there were very basic facilities in our country, no, like especially the telephone. There are only two phones. I remember at the reception and also the manager like that. So, with minimum basic things, only we started. And then I had the passion because I I want to be a house just. So that means I wanted more than travelling to meet people,

Speaker 1  03:21
right?

Speaker 2  03:21
So then I found that that was a very best good opportunity for me to meet people, very especially the people coming from different different countries, because that time it was mostly the either the Scandinavians or the Germans used to come. Not so many Sri Lankans actually came to, but as

Dhananath Fernando  03:42
in now, you know, starting from a trainee receptionist to a managing director of one of the largest chains is, I mean, it's not a joke, right? You have to work very hard and like also knowing the perceptions about the industry, like from what I recollect, you said you joined in 1977. If you recall what people said about tourism industry. Of course, I wasn't born in 1977. Yeah, none of us were born. So, so you have to help us on understanding because from opening up the economy, people said like you know, tourists are coming and there are a lot of culture. It's sort of a cultural shock, and yeah, I mean the the society was not evolved, or neither we had this technology to even to see what was going around the world. Yes. So how did you like after from a trainee reception is what how was that promotion process came in, and how did you change throughout this journey? Right.

Speaker 2  04:36
So now at the beginning, as you said, technologically we were not so so equipped or whatever, but whatever I did, I did it with love and care. So I knew something. The late chairman, as a as a managing director, used to observe me. Like you know, he used to my manager used to say that you know he's very impressed with you the way you walk, work, and all because I. Used to work long hours. I always put my heart and soul to whatever you I did. It's we had to do billing, we had to do day sheets, we had to do everything like you know because everything is manual. So even the telephone, everything. But whatever I did, I did not grumble. I I know, and my my father used to come shop to pick me up because we had only two shifts. So those two shifts, he made sure he dropped me off and he picked me pick me up. So the boys used to laugh at me also. But then I still it was not a big big problem for me. So what I what I what

Dhananath Fernando  05:37
I what I feel is while your father was an open-minded person. Still, he was he was he made sure

Speaker 2  05:43
that he protected his daughter, you know. So anyway, so later in 1982 or 86, I think, son mr. Dimitri Kure joined because he came from sorry joined. Iran Kulev joined. He came from overseas and he had lot of he had a very broad minded and to develop and he took took the company to a different level. So he started giving us lot of training. Though we did the on the on the job training during that when we were trainees, but different training we used to get because now we the country was also getting into like you know the technologically getting improved like you know switchboards and then also the email all those things came up. So then we were sent. I was given a lot of training. Not only me, all the almost everybody was given the opportunity on a lot of training, so we had to like HR. I was sent to NIBM, National Institute of Business Management for one year, and then I I followed the I had to follow that was paid by the company actually invested on us, and so HR and finance and marketing. Then also we had to go for computer classes because 1986 I think the computers came into email and so we had to we were also given a lot of he made sure that the company made sure that we were given a lot of training invested on us so I took that opportunity because some of them did maybe did not want to take that opportunity, but I thought maybe I took it very seriously, like you know the job, and then I took that opportunity. So then we had the evaluation systems, and you know on we were given promotions on merit. So like that, you know, thereby we had I I was given a lot of opportunities to go up in life. Then also when it came to like you know not only that you know the wines we had to do a first level wine exam. We had to there was a person Jeffrey Benson he was the one who was who we bought who was a supplier and also a consultant to the wines in Jetwing because we had our own single single wines collection of wines with Jet only in Jetwing. We that wines were not available in Sri Lanka. So likewise, we were given a lot of training on tea and single estate owned teas and like that, you know. So, so gradually we were also developed by the company to take up more responsibilities than sustainability. Though the sustainability word came during mr. Kure's time was also there because he was very particularly was working with the locals. I used to remember that you know those fishermen they used to come and he said in the lobby he used to come they used to come and sit with him and then talk to him and all that, so observing them and how humble he was and then observing him observing the manager that time he said one summer singer he was spot on he used to you know find we used to talk. My God, how can he see all those faults? You know, he used to. You know, I for retail he was very good. So like that, you know. So I developed myself with the help of with the investment by the company.

Dhananath Fernando  09:14
I'm very excited to learn more about the story, but I have to go back to Dmitry and ask. Now you are the third generation from from from the little that I read about the group. So what she says is she had started with when your grandfather was basically founded the the chain, and then your father and now you took over the business. Like I mean, what's the strategy? Because we are talking about women in in in business and especially on the industry, was there like an overall philosophy which was coming through in the in the group, or like what was how how as a chain that you have looked at it to begin with, Dmitry?

Speaker 1  09:51
So I think for us it has never been like okay. We haven't specifically focused on having the women in the manager. But it was like she mentioned before. It was purely on merit, and we are proud to say that we were. She became the first female general manager of a star class hotel in Sri Lanka in the early 2000s, and since her, at one time, we actually had about seven females as general managers of our hotels, and currently also we still have a few remaining with us. Some have retired now, but so it was a gradual build-up, and most, like her, who have almost 50 years with the company now, have dedicated most of their lives and grown in. Tourism is industry for all, and like she said, it was that passion and commitment which was the most important. Most of the managers within our group have grown within with the company. We have from different backgrounds, walks of life, and education is not always what we look at. It's that commitment and that love and affection you show, because that genuine service has to come from the heart, and that is something my grandfather always insisted on-that hospitality, warm hospitality, but he's all the legendary Sri Lankan hospitality-and that is something that we always empower our staff as well, associates on how they can go that extra mile, and that is something that we always try to differentiate ourselves from others, and as a result, we have seen so many light mr. Norden and others who have drawn up the ladder and listen to some of the highest positions Indian industry has to offer. So we are extremely happy and proud, and also very grateful for their commitment to the company.

Dhananath Fernando  11:39
Dividendri, just wanted to let's get back to the hard facts. Now, running a hotel is not easy because you, as she said, like there are different people from different countries. It's not the same customer or the client, and also this is a 24-seven kind of an operation. And sometimes there is a perception: okay, men can be a better fit because in terms of the kind of the service. So in that context, how do how do you distinguish like the need for women participation? Because you said you had seven at one point, even at the senior positions, not at you know not at the staff level. These are very senior positions. How do you see the essentiality being in this industry? Seeing how your father did it, how your grandfather probably did it. Why do you think it is important? Or like as a business point of view, what's the business case for women to really be in this game?

Speaker 1  12:37
For us, it didn't matter whether you were male or female. Okay, it was purely on merit, and your skill actually. She was running our largest two largest properties in Idambo, and our largest profit centre as well. For almost 10 years, she was the general manager of both of more than more than about 15 years. She was so, and my father always says she was the best manager he had, so for us it doesn't matter whether you are male or female, purely on merit, and and that will give you. And now even in the north, our manager in the Jaffna is a lady,

Dhananath Fernando  13:16
right?

Speaker 1  13:17
And she controls, and she's a Sinhalese lady from actually close to Nidambo in the Ula PTA, and she on her own said she wants to go to Jaffna, and for the last 10 years she's been there, so she has been able with the culture adopt herself and all of that. So it doesn't matter for us where you come from, your background, but purely on your merit and your commitment, if you are the right fit for the job, you'll be able to get it.

Dhananath Fernando  13:44
So that's a that's an interesting point because you are what you are saying is you are not giving an opportunity just because someone is a man or a woman. You are giving on the merit basis, and actually the Sri Lankan women have that capacity and the competence level to really step up and compete, and so not to not to think that just because someone's gender really doesn't help to you know get to places or so. I think that's a that's a very interesting and important comment. Yes, of course.

Speaker 2  14:14
Also, the how the companies are looking at because our company Jetwing I know about the other places. There Even anything, gender didn't matter, promotion or a salary increment or anything, and we also have to. As a female, you cannot just go back and say, "Oh no, no, no! I'm a female. I can't come. You have to do when there is a crisis. You have to face when there are challenges. You have to face. So it's like a like a you're you're in charge of the whole scenario because when tsunami came I was the general manager I can't I cannot go home and hide myself saying that oh no I'm a female I can't do but we had to come forward so difference is the women women I think I think have the power and also the. Capability of handling things, because sometimes it's coming. Maybe, maybe the the outside influence make you a little bit of a you know how can you do that? You know you are not the how females can do this and that all that. But I think we should not get carried away or get you know frightened of all those comments. You know, we have to really. That time, I am the one who led the whole the tsunami time. You know,

Dhananath Fernando  15:29
if I were to intervene for a second now, I mean, if you compare industries, tourism industry probably the most roller coaster, exciting roller coaster ride for a long time because I don't know. I mean, from tsunami, even there was a war. There was plane. I mean, attacks to the airport and then Easter attack, constitutional coup. I mean, if something happens, there has definitely some impact on the tourism industry. So tell us, like, how did you manage? Like, do you have like tsunami? I would really like to know. I was a schoolboy then. Like, what? I mean, how did you manage it, or like, Shag? Take us. Can you take us through your experience on like in most of the cases, like how did you manage it? Like, what was the story behind

Speaker 2  16:09
it? Right. So I, I, during tsunami, so you get excited, you know. But I, I when the when the staff was really getting excited, I, I told them that you calm down, you know. I, my inside. I am also not so calm. But then I said, "No, calm down, calm down. We'll we'll see what is happening. So mr. Kore was calling and saying that you know this place is went down, and we have lost so many people. But then the even the communication was lost. But what we did was we had few hotels that is Jet Wim Blue. I was at BH that time, Jetwing Blue and then Jetwing C. The managers we got together we and we planned out how what we are going to do because we didn't know that what will happen the next because the whales were coming like this and they said by the midnight the whole hotel will be underwater so we went with three of us got together went and went to a nearby school, and then we spoke to the the principal there. Luckily, mr. My colleague Alexander, he knew it was the school near his house, and then we started, you know, putting all the facilities for the guests before they, we take them. So we thought we wanted to move out of the hotel because there were no hotels. So we had to house them somewhere. So school was the best place. Then there were classrooms. So we took the be beach beds and metroses and all those things, whatever possible, and we took them to the nearby school, and we put up TVs for them to see the news and all that. Gave as much as possible the facilities that we could provide. Then we started cooking in the hotel. We had to provide them meals, so we staff got together because some of them left. They and some of the senior staff stayed with us. So we we somehow managed because we had the the equipments and we also had the the goods like you know the food was there like you know in the stores so we started cooking and delivering it and so like that you know we so you manage most difficult times in the

Dhananath Fernando  18:20
yeah, in the history probably in the history of Sri Lanka. Yeah,

Speaker 2  18:23
when it came to like you know the family, they were saying, "What are you doing? Are you mad? Why are you doing? So I said, "No, the thing is because I am a female, I can't leave. Actually, I am I am the manager who is in charge. I am in charge. I have to look after the guests as well as the staff more than the property, also whatever we could, but that property looking after rescuing property was a third option. Like you know, but we had the human beings. We had to.

Dhananath Fernando  18:51
But also, can I? If I were to ask, like, how did you? Because you made a very interesting point. Like, okay, you are now taking care of your guests and the business and the property, but of course, you also have a family and a personal life, like you know. Yeah, but then how do you how do you manage that? And what was the?

Speaker 2  19:08
I don't1. thing is, I'm a Catholic and I believe in God, and I always ask God's help intervention. So maybe I I feel that I had the intervention from God, and then He looked after me, and then he looked. He gave me the inspiration or the spirit to guide the others also, because some other managers were also running or going home, like you know, running. But so

Dhananath Fernando  19:33
understood. Yeah, it's a tough, tough decision. Tough time. Yeah, tough call. Also, Dimitri, just want to understand. Like, since you have a history of, I mean, you said it's all on merit basis, but it seems that there are people gone up to the higher rankings when it comes to the female women labour force participation in your chain. Like, are there? I mean, as a management, have there any structural barriers or cultural barriers that you have? Identified on especially females joining the the industry, and how do you manage as a group, or are there any any solutions that you have brought out to basically address this challenge? I would also like to know same from Highsin, but I would first like from to know from you how how this challenge has been addressed?

Speaker 1  20:23
No, definitely in Sri Lanka there is a challenge. There's a this stigma that hospitality means something else, and especially maybe Kalambo, Nigambo, and a few other cities, it's a little different. But we as an organisation now we have grown and we have 38 properties around the country, and what we do now is actually we started off in 2006 with Jetpin Millwana when we started our youth development programme, where we when when we are looking at recruiting at the early stages, what we do is we work with the local community and the predominant religion in that area, for example, in Sidira, it was the temple with the Buddhist monk, and we also invite the parents of the youth to come and see the hotel. So the parents come like for a bit of orientation somewhere, and they see, okay, this is not what they are heard from their whatever the thoughts from the neighbours or what they have heard from others. So by showcasing that, and also by getting the lottery Buddhist monks, the priests, and so on, to advise the youth, both male and female, that working in a hotel does not mean anything wrong or anything bad, and that has really helped us. And even when we went to Jaffna in 2015, and we did the youth development programme there, everybody told us girls in Jaffna won't join the industry. That the girls are very conservative; they will not work, but actually, we had one of our largest turnouts were females for that programme, and a lot of them worked with us. Of course, unfortunately, there's been still a bit of a cultural issue where after marriage, a lot of the men tell the ladies not to work, which unfortunately is another issue that hopefully things will change over time. That there'll be more acceptance. There'll be more acceptance of after marriage also for them to work in the cities due to either financial constraints. A lot of people or also professional reasons people work, but in the villages, though there might be financial constraints, the men maybe are just sometimes a bit proud or arrogant. Will say that they will provide for the family and ask the wife to be at home and look after the children. So that is sometimes the issue we face. But to overcome that, now we have actually started a separate programme called Sedentaryers, where we love most ladies by the time they are in their mid to late 40s, the children have grown up, and sometimes some of them, unfortunately, their husbands have either passed away or they are struggling, and they are migrated or some problem they have. So now we actually employ these ladies, depending on their stills. So some of them are very good toots, especially the lotal food. So they work in a staff cafeterias or in our kitchens. Some work in the laundry. Some, if they have a little bit of other stills, they might work in different departments. So, by allowing these, most of the ladies are working distance to the properties.

Dhananath Fernando  23:52
Right.

Speaker 1  23:52
So they still have that comfort of doing the day shift, and by late evening they can go and stay in their home and be with the family, so this has also enabled us to create a different segment of employment. Because and though with all its secretaries, actually most of them are doing their first job actually right at 45 or something they start in their first career because in their early 20s and 30s they don't work due to family commitments, but this says now and most areas now we are seeing them. Sometimes they might work in the dark and they might sweep. It might not be the most glamorous of jobs, but every job is as important to us and everybody. We are sometimes in hospital, you only see the glamorous side. I said yes, but there is a big team at the back also who contributes a lot to the success, and all these ladies contribute immensely by ensuring our gardens are well kept, the linens is well washed, pressed, our staff are well fed, so. All these are important roles which they provide now.

Dhananath Fernando  25:04
So, Dimitri, what you what you mentioned was quite important because what as Advocata, what we also believe is also the providing the choice because when someone starts at 40, we generally say that we have two lives and the second one starts at 40, and even someone who really do not have a background in the first career and like starting at 40, because if they don't have an opportunity, they will not earn anything at all.

Speaker 1  25:28
Yeah.

Dhananath Fernando  25:28
So that's that's quite important. But moving back to you, Haysin, like, can you tell us when it comes to because it's I mean what you see is like someone joining at 40, but there are there is so much going at the personal level when it comes to the cultural barriers, and you know, on on managing your family, on sometimes facing with social stigma for a women to really join. Can you take us through that journey, and also what did you do to motivate them, to train them, and how was that? Because someone who really haven't done a job till 40 years of age, and then converting them to even to do a do a job. I mean, whether it's a big job or I mean, what's the scale of the job is not necessarily matters because you are doing something very important to the value chain. So how did you do that? And can you take us through like how how the you know personal stigma side was managed?

Speaker 2  26:25
So now, when it comes to either 40 or even if you're joining in 20s, a female in our culture is the security is a concern for everyone, anyway, parent, even mother. So very especially when they come for interviews, my I used to talk by the mother and say that you know, fortunately I'm a female, so when I interview, they have a little bit of a confidence, you know, that you know, that we will we will secure them. But I can't, you know, it's not a not easy for us to ensure that you know we are they are secured all the time. But certain things like when they when they have the evening shifts, so we give the we provide the transport, and also a security guard, security personnel, or somebody senior will accompany when there are females. So, likewise, even for a person in 40s, we have to. We are when you training them is bit a tough because easy jobs they will do like as a gardener or cooking in the kitchen because they are used to anyway cleaning and working in the laundry or whatever. But then to adapt to the hospitality industry, we have to make sure that we we we send them a bit of orientation because every whatever person we employ, every employee has is going through an orientation. It talks about the company, how it forms, and about the industry and what our values and what our vision and mission and what we have to do or how important the the the tour is, how much we should respect and all that. You know. So those evaluations, those the the training is given on that you know, so they are given a like you know sending going through all that you know orientation and then show the hotel and especially for ladies in when when they are young when you see the hotel of course they get really impressed wow I like to work and all that, but when you are in 40s and all, little bit reluctant. My gosh, am I going to work in this place? You know, because so sophisticated. Then am I? But we have to gradually we have to talk to them, and then mostly by training, HR gets really involved with each other. Really a really a big yes component. Human resources is the biggest, you know, the responsibility that they have to take. You know, they have to make sure that you know HR is HR. Also, mostly our we have ladies more than females. So that also is another plus point. So and they come, and then we always say that you know you can. Our doors are open in our our our jet wing culture. Our doors are open. I know that general manager can't meet everyone always, but we say that your doors are open when we walk. We always say hello and we greet them. And but HR has to make sure that you know they are given the their their their grievances are addressed. So not that we we don't have because anyway either the husbands or even the fathers or somebody there is a

Dhananath Fernando  29:34
high seat on on that note now since you joined what is your experience do you feel like women are more open to join this industry, or do you see a gradual increase in people joining, or actually is it the other way around? I'm not only talking about your chain, but overall as an industry, I'm sure you may have some understanding of how the how the industry works, how it has been transformed. I mean, for good side or. To the bad side,

Speaker 2  30:01
I could say now during our time, there were a lot of females joined as room room girls or room attendants. Now I see that it's we don't find room attendants so much. We don't, for that matter, we don't find female housekeepers for that matter. So it's getting maybe it's getting tougher, you know that you know the the expectations are coming from low, higher and higher. People are very very conscious about everything, like you know, the cleanliness, not only the cleanliness, everything. So I find that you know there are so many other opportunities for ladies now. I don't know. I couldn't. I don't understand how that you know most of these men they send their wives to Middle East to do the same job or to Singapore to do the same job, but they don't want to send their wives or their daughters to the hospitality industry in in Sri Lanka, but I don't know what 40s. That of course I have not learned what it is. What is the even after 50 as you're still struggling to learn? I don't see why. So

Dhananath Fernando  31:10
on a quick administrative question. So you mentioned earlier there was females who used to do certain types of jobs, and now you cannot find actually people. Is it basically men overtaking it, or like, is it on a like you know whether there's a real shortage of talent or females who would really willing to do that sector? Do you can I mean one

Speaker 2  31:34
thing is health and safety factor also like you know if you take a room girl or a room attendant. When you tuck the mattress, you have to lift the mattress, and then you need about two people to work. Like if you are in the restaurant to carry the table to a different location, so you need two people or two or three people to carry, and that is one of the reasons I think health and Safety factor, so that of course you have to cooperate. We that that we will have a strategy that you know you work with the males, both male, female, and male, and then you work together and then do the job, like you know in a room cleaning a room or arranging a table outside or outside location or whatever, and then both there you don't have to give the full responsibility to female staff. I

Dhananath Fernando  32:29
think one one factor is also the industry also evolved because you know even from like the type of mattresses that we use from 1977 to now. I mean the the heaviness to the type of furniture and everything has changed, so you need different types of skills with the evolving needs and the specs of the industry. When it comes to recruitment strategies, you mention multiple things that you do, especially even opening up for like you know someone who passes 40 years, then you have options and orientations and things like that. Can you compare like two different locations? Because that also, you know, you know the strategy also differs based on the location, other than the language. You mentioned there was one lady who really want from Diula PTA, right, to to want to go to Jaffa and take up the challenge, but when you are promoting, depending on the location, because resorts may be different to a city hotel. Do you have any interesting case studies, interesting things that you did on attracting? Yeah, two types of markets.

Speaker 2  33:37
Yes, no. Yeah, I went to Huna's first as a general manager. I didn't. I it was really I did not know anything about Hunas Falls, and then in the sense I was I worked in Nigambo and in the city hotel, and then when it came when I had to go to Hunas Falls, totally different, different the the human resources were different, but they were actually humble, and then and I had to work with the the Buddhist temples because I am Catholic. I I was not so much familiar with the Buddhist culture or whatever, and also the estates, and then state labourers and all that. So I think our company never selected a female should not go there or not? But then mr. Kure Hiran Kuri asked me, "Would you like to go? And actually, he didn't ask me whether would you like to go. But I was sent, and then then Gihan, who Jiratna who was who was doing all the bird watching, and he's the one who promoted Yala for what you call the leopard leopard promotion, then he said, "You when you go there, you will have to learn about birds. I said, "I have seen only crows in Nigamu. I have never seen a. But I took lot of interest and I learned because we had a lot of training. Actually, I took part. Professor Kota Gema came, Vijay Bihan came and took us on bird watching. I was able to identify the birds, the call, and all that. So it was interesting, but I think each 10 individual have to take a put a effort. I mean, with Priyantika also the same. No, she went and worked in.

Dhananath Fernando  35:14
In terms of Dimitri, no, thank you. I think that's that's very valuable to helpful to understand the context in terms of recruitment strategy. Is there anything that in particular that you? Yeah, so

Speaker 1  35:24
those depending on the areas. For example, in Kalambo, the cities, then we look at things like online top jobs or things like that. We and depending on the posters now, for certain roles, we also use LinkedIn now a lot. Right. At when it comes to executive level and maybe the junior levels, other platforms like top jobs and so on. Sometimes out of Colombo, we will advertise in the newspapers also. Not a lot, but there are opportunities sometimes, depending on the area, whether it's the Sinhalese or the Tamil newspapers also there is. Plus, we also go into the local schools with the local communities, the like I mentioned before, either the temple, the church, the crouch will will ask the priest to during his Sunday what message to mention that if there are any youth interested in joining the industry, there is open day in so and such a place for them to just bring their whatever they have with them, and what up for a interview. So there are multiple ways, just depending on the position or the level of the job, there will be so very thumbs. And now we also seeing more social media playing a part, which wasn't there before, especially with new generation. TikTok has become. We we actually recently we have someone in our office. We recently had a person who just handles our social media page for our HR side, just showcasing the life lifestyle of a person involved in the industry,

Dhananath Fernando  37:01
right?

Speaker 1  37:02
Showing a bit of the back of the house action. What it this is purely

Dhananath Fernando  37:07
for HR, not for like promoting the hotel. This is only for HR.

Speaker 1  37:10
Purely for HR. We have we have a girl now in the HR department in our head office showing what it's like for someone to work in the industry, even as a female or a male, what you see the battle of the house action sometimes there are because out of Talambo, if sometimes you have to stay in a dorm, so sometimes or how that feels, you might be sharing a dorm with 10 others or whatever. So here is something new to you. So all these things are showcased, which which we also started recently about a month back. But this is something that we feel which is important. And now, of course, training we also have a learning manager platform where things are now done digitally, because everybody has a smartphone, and for a lot of youth watching a video, sometimes is more a two-minute video gives them they have more attention to that. So we need to also adapt, and that is something which we also tell our managers when we are dealing with the younger generation or new generation who are entering the workforce. It's different to when she joined 50 years ago, so you need to treat them with a little bit more affection sometimes. Earlier, I know the sometimes seniors were very harsh on the juniors, and always the trainees end up doing all the unwanted things. But now things are different. People are not that accepted. They don't accept you to be treated differently. So, which we also have zero tolerance when it comes to all of that. So, yeah,

Dhananath Fernando  38:51
Dmitry. On on on that note, how do you? I mean, when because from from what I understood that you have some level of mechanism on merit basis that you get people to go up on the rankings, and you even on the preacher you mention even the chefs that you encourage them to go overseas and come and work, and there's some structure as a as a let's say as a administrative or owner's point of view or a shareholders point of view on running this industry, she mentioned HR is a critical role because it's orientation. You really dilute that myths or anything that when someone joins the industry, you know this is how it actually operates. It's not about you know anything else. It's like this is how you serve it. But in terms of the processes or systems, what is in place? You think whether what is working for you or like what are the best practices to especially on getting the same people upon the rankings because generally what you do is you recruit someone from the industry who have some experience in either it can be somewhere else in a different country or like in a different competitive hotel. So, what is the process, or what are the best practices that you follow when it comes to this segment?

Speaker 1  40:06
So, for us at Jetwin, our biggest asset are the people we have. We have close to 3000 associates, and that's something that we put a lot of effort into, making sure in that all are looked after. Of course, as the company grows, sometimes you may not have a personal connection with everybody, but it is essential. And as a group, we always try to promote within. Actually, one is we never hire someone to the portion of general manager straight away.

Dhananath Fernando  40:37
Right. That

Speaker 1  40:38
is something we have been doing over the last number of years where we made sure they will even if they come in as an executive role, they will join at a slightly maybe as a just a department head or something like that, because we have noticed when we have people who come directly as a GM, they might not fit into our culture the way we were the style. So one of the things we always do is we have a very quite a good management trainee programme, where we train from either hotel school graduates or other graduates coming into the industry, where they'll do about a one year management traineeship, where then they will be. Then they'll work in a few of our different locations, and then take on more responsibilities in those properties. And now we actually have quite a few management trainees who are in their early 30s who are now general managers of our hotels. So for us, it doesn't matter about your age, gender, or whatnot. If you're even we have I think our unders managers about 29. So even if you're 29 or below 30 doesn't matter. You can if you have the capabilities and you have the still, you can be. So we have a very wide. We have managers who are in their 20s to managers in their 60s and 70s, so as a company, also we don't have a forceful retirement age per se. What my father always says is, as long as you are relevant, you can remain. The day you become irrelevant is the time for you to go. And what he always he uses Steve Wo as an example, as I know, you also love your critter, so do I. So, what you always say is the person should draw off when they're on top, not wait until you're asked to draw. So I think that is something we we have had a lot of our managers waiting well into their 60s, and we are very grateful for them for the number of years they have served, and when it's time when they realise, okay, it's I have had my time. I'm enough. Is enough? Yeah, it's we also prefer it that way rather than having to forcefully ask or it because whatever said and done, people have committed a lot, maybe 20, 3040, years of their lives, and we don't want to just under a lot of company, of course, have a maybe a 55 or a 60 retirement policy. Ours is as a family business, we have the flexibility to even not only our managers, even our other associates, work well into their 60s, and as long as they are relevant, they are fit and capable. We have no problems. So, I think those have helped us to develop within both male and female into from starting off as trainees and then slowly climbing up the ladder and eventually ending up as a manager. So, that is, I think, something that we have, I feel done well over the years, and I think it's thanks to my grandfather, father, and mrs. Rohan Samarino and Taran Cham, and all who have helped develop the teams at that time, and now we are benefiting from those the hard work they did.

Dhananath Fernando  44:03
So, David, I think since you mentioned this about retirement age, I think now your strategy is going to be more appropriate because seeing someone like as a research institute, we go through the numbers. I mean, lot of demographic numbers over a period of time, and our population is shrinking now. And at the same time, the I mean, the dependent population is also increasing on the other side. So, lot of us had to work, you know, past 55, and you know, probably retire quite late. And since you mentioned cricket, I remember you mentioned Steve. I think Ricky Ponting once commented, asked like, Ricky, when are you going to retire, he said. The day I stop enjoying cricket, so so likewise, I think it's a it's a good appropriate example. High sin, but I would like to know now. Generally, this shifting happens when there's a life transition happens. Like you, as as as you mentioned, you you marry someone or like there are there's children in life, so. Those points is where basically with that transition you really cannot keep up with the job. Yeah. Are there any strategies that has been successfully implemented other than the orientation, like anything that worked for you? Since you also have diverse experience at operational level, not at like the chairman's level. You really have been at the ground, working with people, you have seen the guests, you have seen the the team who are who is working. What has worked, and what is the psyche when they are actually facing sort of a life cycle transformative event, and how do you basically navigate that through?

Speaker 2  45:37
So, like once you get married, and very especially you get married, but when you are when you are pregnant, when you are expecting, so we give a lot of a lot of either flexi hours or like that. You know, we give them give them comfort, like you know that way. And also, once feeding time, we give the once the babies, and we are given they are given three months leave before and after, and also we make sure that you know the child. Child, their feeding time is given, like in the whenever the time that they request, like in the morning or evening, because sometimes they come late because they want to feed the child, and also early they want to feed the child. So those are those are the flexible things that we look at for a female, very especially when it comes to the child needs. I think I think in the in the in the future, probably we might have to we don't have at the moment. But then to to get more attract more females, very especially once you come to an age, you get married, and then you will have children. So maybe we may have to have a think of having a kind of a creche or whatever, like you know when their child is about two years or three years. So then the mother can keep the child and something that we can introduce, and then then so they are they are very comfortable because my child is here safe, and I don't live with the the maid or whoever. So like that, you know, something that we can think of in the future because to attract more and more more females to our industry because females are very important. Though we give that you know flexi hours to them and all that, in the meantime to look after the children, also a child or to when it comes to

Dhananath Fernando  47:24
the got

Speaker 2  47:24
it

Dhananath Fernando  47:25
yeah yeah. Also, Dimitri wanted to understand now the challenges, especially when you are recruiting, because as we all know, labour force is a big factor in this industry. It's a more people's like human human value driven industry. It's not about the hotels or the food. I mean, there are people need to work behind that food to hotels to architecture and everything. So when it comes to specially promoting the career options available, because when I went through the research done by MDF, lot of people basically get the information from their close family or like family friends are the first source of information about the career options or building perceptions about this industry. Are there any recruitment strategies or like promoting the career options available in this industry that you have followed as a chain, as a with your long-standing experience in this industry, how do you basically break that barrier? Because if you first hear, okay, hotel industry, please don't go, then that's the end of the story. But you have to have a kind of a positive or like a realistic, rather the positive, realistic view of like you know how the industry works and this is what is and this is what is not. How do you do that, especially on thinking of a island-wide scale? Because this is not only particularly you know for Nigambo or like to Jaffna. This is we have to have a kind of a island-wide strategy. What has worked and what what thoughts do you have?

Speaker 1  49:00
So for us, that what I mentioned before, the Jetin You Delon programme is the main thing which we have been doing, where we basically our only requirement is be above the age of 18 and be able to smile.

Dhananath Fernando  49:16
Right. We

Speaker 1  49:17
don't look at any other qualifications, no exams, whatnot. Right. And what we first do is we teach the students English for a couple of months in a classroom style environment, and now actually at the start we didn't, but now at the moment we pay a monthly allowance as well, because otherwise some can't afford the transport. We pay a little amount, so at least it covers their expenses. Plus after that, we teach the students the four basic departments: house TP in front office, FNB, and the culinary side. And then, depending on each one, capability, preference, all of that, then they'll be maybe allocated to different hotels. Where then they'll get hands-on experience. This operation has helped us recruit at the junior level, at the entry level, because and also some of the jobs, some of the roles are not very glamorous.

Dhananath Fernando  50:16
Right.

Speaker 1  50:16
So we also seen how we can now combine roles, that especially in certain jobs like being a teacher in store, washing plates. All of us love to go to a hotel and eat buffet usually. But sometimes people we might take four five plates to eat. But okay, though there is a machine to us, somebody has to still clean it and wash it. So those are not glamorous jobs. It's a very tiring. You're in the kitchen with hot water washing these. So, so we we also want to see how we can incorporate these type of people and let them also a little bit more exposure. We have also sometimes guys who come to wash plates who end up as chefs? It also depends on that individual's interest if they are willing to put in that little bit of effort. So we have had so those type of trainings enable people to understand that hospitality there are a lot of options, and then not only in that there are the in addition to the basic departments, then you have the support departments. You have finance, human resource, engineering, all of that which comes into play to enable to make sure that the wheels run and wheels turn and the hotel operation goes on. So, so that is the key, and there are a lot of opportunity. I think when it comes to ladies nowadays, most prefer to work in the front or the front office in the restaurant and so on. But there are other areas also where they can contribute. I think one thing I have noticed, especially in the local universities, most of now. I recently, couple of years, about a year ago, also, I went to the Uvelas University to give a talk. I would say 75% of the students were females.

Dhananath Fernando  52:13
Right,

Speaker 1  52:14
but unfortunately, most of them, once they graduate, they apply for office job. That they may have studied tourism or hospitality management or whatnot, but most of them are reluctant to work in a hotel. So they have spent maybe three four years of their early youth studying something, but are not willing to work in the industry. So, and whereas now, and another classic is every time I go for the hotel stool graduation, most of the awards are won by the girls.

Dhananath Fernando  52:45
Right, because they probably study a little harder than the

Speaker 1  52:48
men, but it's all the always the men who end up becoming a GM most of the time, because the girls again are not willing sometimes to avert. They would prefer a training job. We have had couple of graduates who became batch tops. They join us, but after about six months, they are like asking HR, can they be in the training team without virgin? Right. So that, so like she said, she as a lady of had to put a lot of commitment. You can't just because you're female, you can't be expected to be treated differently. If you want to achieve that same role, then you need to be able to put in that same effort as as a man would, because and not just expect to get a position purely on your gender. So, as for us, like I mentioned before, it all depends on how hard you work, the commitment and the dedication, and then you can become a manager. There are, and we are happy now. There are also girls who have joined through our youth development programme, who are now junior executives and slowly rising up. So, hopefully, in another 510 years, one of them might become a manager as well. So that'll bring us great joy. So these adults from the villages who had very limited background in this industry, but now maybe working for about 10 years from a trainee level coming to a front office executive level. So and now a few more steps more to do. So there are a lot of promising candidates like that as well.

Dhananath Fernando  54:27
Excellent. We are coming to like the final stages of our conversation. I I wish that I had more time to get this conversation going. But final two questions. One is on in terms of industry because as the global tourism industry also considering the gender inclusivity and different factors, because now the guests are also quite well informed, because information is easily accessible. Do you have any advice for the Sri Lankan tourism industry to pitch it like more gender inclusivity?

Speaker 2  55:00
This process, I I just want what I want to say is like you, as he said that you know the girls they go to the university they study the tourism or you go to this hotel school, and but we have to make sure that you know that's only theoretically we learn. We have to come as trainees. We have to start even in the hotel school. You had to six months you have theory, theory, and then you come back to the hotel in a hotel that you learn the industry. You know, you work as a from the from the bottom. You know, so serving or cleaning the plate or whatever. So the what I want to give in our country, the females, especially that they have to. You have to make sure though you study something that does not mean that you know you can apply immediately. You have to have a certain background of training because there are training studying theoretically is different to when it comes to applying. So that is the humbleness I think we have to have. So that was the humbleness that I had. I was humble enough to learn and then do work. You know, not that I came up like a like a rocket. You know, shut up. So you have to be. I don't know. It's the education system. I don't know. Maybe they have to teach in the universities in the places like Sabaragamo and all because we have had so many females coming doing the degree and then they just work for about three months or four months and they're not happy because they want the top jobs. They want the top. They want to become a general manager for three months. Exactly. So, but when it comes to so that is one thing and also what I just want to mention that you know Jetmy not only that investment on even we were taken to so many countries, you know, on all of us. It's not only female males, all of us. First we were taken to Thailand by mr. Rankure when he was the managing director. That time, Sri Lanka was you know nowhere when we went to Thailand when we saw those hotels. You know how how they were the service, and then what kind of a level they had, you know, food and all, and so like that. We have sent so many young our executives to different countries to get the exposure, and also to learn about the industry. So, as jet ring, of course, we do a lot of investment on training that not only Sri Lank in in the within the country, but we take them also out and show them different different important factors in the hospitality industry. So the females, what I want is to tell them, you know, make sure that you know you learn, but then you have to come back and start your from the ground. So got it.

Dhananath Fernando  57:44
My final question. I'll pose it for both Dimitri and Haysin, both of you. Do you, if you have any recommendations for the, I mean, wide industry to really unlock female potential? I know you mentioned it's a merit-based system, but even if there are based on the demography and based on the composition of our population. Do you have any recommendations to the entire industry? Because there were recently we saw some some amendments to the regulation in terms of nighttime work hours. There are some regulations also. While you say it's merit basis, sometimes the the legal structure prohibits sometimes women engaging to an extent, probably for their own safety. Those regulations were brought in, but do you have any recommendations broad wise? I mean, on to unlock the potential. I will start with you, Dmitry.

Speaker 1  58:36
No, I think there is a lot of potential because I think currently, if you take overall as industry, we are maybe seven 8% when it comes to the lady female engagement, and compare into our neighbours in the area. Most countries are 40 50% or above when it comes to the hospitality industry female participation. So, I think it's that main thing is that overall perception and that stigma around it needs to be more put out there, and especially in the villages, people need to be they need to be educated better, and even through schools, I think if you look at our education system in all, I think they are after looking at change in these systems. But our education system is brought you to become a doctor, engineer, lawyer, doctor, something like that. But if you are not intelligent enough to get through your exams, there is very short. There is no fallout for you, so we need to also look at in not only in hospitality but other industries where it comes to the maybe when children are in their early teens, where if they realise okay, my my area is not maybe into those serious indigent. But more into the vocational side, whether it's hospitality, whether it is now we have so many other things when it comes to vocational training side, all of that. So that alone, and then educating the parents and showcasing that working in this industry is not what they think it is. There is so much potential, and now like you said, thankfully, some of the restrictions have been removed where females are allowed to work after 10:30 in the night and so on. Still, most might not want to do it due to various reasons. But at least you have the freedom now. Earlier, it was a taboo, but now at least okay. And especially in the city, there will be out of Colombo, maybe. But also, to be honest, now our resort hotels most of the time after 1030, things pretty much are pretty quiet, and it's only the night audit and so on. But it's a city hotels that are lively, active, and you have your 24 hour coffee shops and things like that. So there is definite stroke, and I personally would like to see more in the industry. And whoever's graduating from this industry should remain involved, not have a set with it and hand it up on your wall and stay at home, but put used to that effort you put in three, four years of hard work and studies into use and aspire to be individuals like Hyacinth, who will maybe in 25 years' time you can probably say that you're a general manager of a star class hotel rather than keeping a graduate certificate with nothing to show for it,

Dhananath Fernando  1:01:41
Haysinth, what recommendations that you have from trainee receptionist to the executive director, like at a country-wise, if we were to unlock more people like you, what the industry can do, what the policy reformers can do.

Speaker 2  1:02:00
I think females have to think out of the box, and then not to worry about the challenges that you will have to face. You know, especially sometimes they are worried are certain things like you know if something happens in the night, if some then what? How am I going to you know get to like you know to support that kind of overcome that situation and all that. So, because hospitality industries, we are working with people every day. There is a challenge. You find 100 people in the hotel. At least one person will complain, and that can be a complaint which is not actually relevant to the to you. So, but then as females, I don't know whether there there are. I think emotionally females emotional more than the males. No, males always use the brain, but we have to we also have to make sure that you know we use the brain also, not only emotions. So if the females can can be a mother and look after children, and then look after a husband. Surely they should be able to come out and then work. I mean, work in the industry. It's a pathetic situation. You go to the hotel school, you get a great certificate, you become the best student, and then there you don't want to come back and then work for the industry. So when you are coming back to the industry, even if you have the best, you are the best top top best top. You have to come down and you have to start from the from the bottom, bottom in the sense you have to work as a trainee and then you have to get your hands on. Otherwise you can't just take the certificate and then say how to solve the problems or whatever you have to face it. So the females, I think, I don't know why. What is the reason in Sri Lanka? Why they don't want to face challenges? A female, they have to face the challenges. Either you, the country will have to start educating in the schools itself now. If they are changing the education system with the vocational training, I am sure that that will help a lot. And if the if the females can go and join the free trade zone and work in with the machines, working for so many long hours, why can't they come and work in the industrial hospitality? Also, what is the difference? You know.

Dhananath Fernando  1:04:14
All right. Thank you very much, Dmitry, and thank you very much, Haysin, and congratulations on the excellent career which I first got to know firsthand. I mean, I have heard about your story in multiple forums, but this is the first time I got the opportunity to interact with you in person. So with that, we are wrapping up our podcast, and this is a conversation we collaborated with MDF and Sri Lanka Tourism Alliance. So thank you very much for joining us, and there's another conversation I we conducted with Malik Fernando, and there'll be few probably will be coming up. So stay tuned, and you can subscribe our YouTube channel, and pretty much we are available in many other social media platforms, including TikTok. So thank you very much again. We are looking forward to seeing you with a similar kind of a. Conversation. See you.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai