charindra chandrasena 00:00 Hi Dana. Dhananath Fernando 00:08 Hi Jari. charindra chandrasena 00:09 Hi Anusker, returning guest today. Dhananath Fernando 00:13 Returning guest. You somehow managed to keep Riyadh away today, no? charindra chandrasena 00:16 Riyadh away today for a for a little while, but but he was just just here telling us telling us a few things about about this traffic problem that that I wasn't want to talk about, but you know he was complaining about how they have they have a repairs done on the road at 4p.m. right, which affects the traffic flow because that's that's a peak traffic cover. So so just so if anybody's wondering, Riyadh is still very much a part of the show, whether whether he's on screen or not. Riyadh is omnipresent, ever present. Good Speaker 1 00:55 disclaimer to make. Yeah, you are wondering. Riyadh charindra chandrasena 00:59 is still very much in the mix, so the thing I want to talk about. But before that, let's go into some other developments also that we are not going to talk about. But let's let's just you know mention them. The war is back on, unfortunately. This this time I don't know where it's going because when they hadn't tried a ceasefire and hostilities were on, that's one matter. Now they've tried a ceasefire and hostilities are back on. That means they've tried peace and they've chosen war. So I don't know where this is heading. the The only only positive sign, as far as cost of living is concerned, that I can see is that there the the full prices have already sort of priced in the escalation, so because the last revision was so slight, we have gone down only a bit from the peak, and therefore there won't need to be a massive increase, if at all. I mean, there might not be an increase at all, but even if there is, it'll be a very slight one. So that's that's as far as the good news is concerned about that, but everything else is bad news. But this this week we want to touch on this thing. There's Dhananath Fernando 02:32 no other major economic developments in Sri Lanka. I mean, as as news stories, it's kind of the same. So so charindra chandrasena 02:38 I mean, over here we discuss economic matters, but I mean honestly, there's no like overpowering topic this week so far. So we decided to speak about transport because Nambio and Anushka, you can give a little bit of an introduction about what Nambio is. But Nambio has ranked Colombo the third most congested city in the world. Wow! So yeah, in the world. Sorry, not Colombo. It's Sri Lanka. So Sri Lanka is the third most congested country in the world after Nigeria and Costa Rica. Now Nigeria has a huge population. Okay, Costa Rica not so much, but Nigeria has a massive population, so you can understand why it ranks number one. Sri Lanka, while the traffic situation is bad, I'm a little surprised that is number three in the world, above India, Speaker 1 03:59 Bangladesh, charindra chandrasena 04:00 Bangladesh, China, Philippines, where traffic is terrible. Dhananath Fernando 04:08 Even Bangkok, right? Yeah, charindra chandrasena 04:09 exactly. All these cities. I'm a little surprised. So, Anushka, what do you do? You attach a lot of value to this ranking? Yeah. Speaker 1 04:20 So, Sri Lanka was ranked third, but it was ranked third globally, but first within Asia. charindra chandrasena 04:28 Yeah, Speaker 1 04:29 so that's shocking. The thing about Nambio, getting straight to the point, Nambio is a crowdsourced database, so it's not an economic study done by the World Bank, you know, done by ADB or even the this is thing called the ATO, Asian Transport Observatory, right? So it's not done by any of that. It's completely crowdsourced. So whoever has access to the internet, whoever can read, write, you know, English, and whoever goes in and peels. This, all of their input will be used to you know consider this measure. So when you look at a source like Nambio, I think it's very important that you look at what the sample is, right? Because I don't think Nambio has taken the full national aspect into account, right? Yeah, probably can charindra chandrasena 05:22 be very Columbus centric. It's very Speaker 1 05:24 Columbus centric. I feel like, and very frustrated Columbus centric people who are reporting this while charindra chandrasena 05:32 stuck in the traffic. Speaker 1 05:34 While stuck in the traffic, probably reporting this. So, whereas Dhananath Fernando 05:36 they are getting it from Sri Lankan Twitter. Yeah, so I think it's very Speaker 1 05:40 important that you look at the sample first, because I don't think it fully captures the entire this entire island country national wide picture. That's very important because I think one thing that they mentioned was the fact that in their measure, if a one-way commute past 25 minutes, then they assume that the commuter dissatisfaction increases exponentially, right? But in Sri Lanka, I think one way one way commute is but one hour. I think that's normal, right? So I think these places are definitely into the worst case scenario. But I think what's important from this article is to get their message. Yeah, so it doesn't mean Dhananath Fernando 06:24 our traffic is you know it doesn't mean that we charindra chandrasena 06:26 are number three in the world. Yeah, but it could mean that we are heavily congested. Exactly, and and that's not something that we need data on. Correct. Yeah, we we experience it twice a day usually. Dana, let me just start from you in terms of what is the okay. So we have a population of 21 point something billion. Sorry, million, right? We have 65,000 plus square kilometres of land. Why is Sri Lanka as congested as it is, especially in terms of the urban areas? Just, just, just a very like a helicopter view overall thing. We'll get into the details later. Dhananath Fernando 07:18 Yeah, the the challenge is, Chari. This congestion problem is multifaceted. You can easily we can say it's okay poor public transport, which is true, which is just one side of it. But I think this is that's why the challenge of the public policy issues because these are so complicated. While it looks like simple, in my view, okay, public transportation is poor. That also affects the housing market because as a result, lot of people, I mean, who are who want to have aspirational, you know, careers or aspirations, they want to move towards Colombo. But of course, they can't afford a apartment or a house in Colombo, which is like let's say walking distance or 10 minutes or 15 minutes from their office is difficult. So they all come and try to settle in. We are kind of you and I settle. Batarmula, Muratua, Panadura, Malale, Rajagiriya, Ragama, Vattala, those areas. And as we all know, our development and everything is very Colombo-centric. I mean, afterwards, it's Gaul that is also developed after the Southern Highway probably now with candy and then very few cities, so as a result there is a real estate problem on the other side and that happens because of course with construction because cost of construction is high. At the same time, that also connected with the land issue. So when you put everything together, you see what is congestion is. I think, it's not the root cause. It's also in a way a root cause, but also like a symptom at the same time. So that's my diagnosis. And then you have on top of it like the issues with the railway, the internet, the there's no GPS. You really don't have a tracking system. What time it's available and all that. All sorts of things available, and then people end up in thinking this is a problem of tuk-tuks. They are the one who create kind of. Of course, they have ridiculous driving habits, but of course, in a way, those are solutions evolved from the marker in the system to avoid this bad mess. So now, if you try to solve it, like only by addressing tuk-tuks, or only by addressing public transport, only by addressing cost of construction, you really cannot address. I think there's a consolidated effort is needed, but it takes a lot of time because bringing all these together is a problem. Or you think it's an LRP problem that we really didn't do the LR? Of course, all those are contributing factors, but the problem is, in my view, so complicated that you have to have, I mean, different approaches, but at the same time, it's like a, in your favourite terms, like a defence line in a rugby game. You know, everyone has to move at the same pace. Just because one player is faster, the moment that he runs faster, actually you are diluting the strength of the line itself. Or like if you are a slow player, you also get. Diluting the so you had to move at the same pace. charindra chandrasena 10:02 Yeah. So as far as now this government is concerned, I think transport is a focus area for the government, and I think one area that even their critics tend to give them some credit on, because they are. I mean, their critics heavily criticise them on the economy. Their critics heavily criticise them on just governance, administration, competency, all of that. But I think transport is one area where maybe even even the critics of the government can, you know, have some sort of understanding that the government is trying to do something, and the transport ministry. I think it's a two-pronged approach that they are taking to this. One is in terms of buses, the other in the rail sector. But I think the buses are the main thing, and and there we have to talk about the metro system that they have now. Anushka, I want to understand the metro. How is the metro actually different from the regular buses because a lot of people, the assumption is that okay, it is less congested, and it's AC. Beyond that, how is it different? Speaker 1 11:38 Well, I think this whole new low flow thing is something that the metro buses have, where you know where you have more accessibility, especially for disabled people, elderly people, and that. So that's I think another advantage it brings. Well, beyond I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to think as we speak now, but beyond comfortability, you know, less congestion inside of it. I'm struggling actually to see a difference because I don't see a purpose or a or a good benefit in bringing any type of bus if we don't have the proper roads and have the proper ways for it to move. I think that's very important because I'm in this whole opinion of that you know roads are made for vehicles, it's not for pedestrians, it's not for bicycles. But I think this whole Sri Lankan model of roads is that they have tried to mix all modes of transportation to the road. So whatever bus or whatever thing you bring, it won't make sense unless you create a multimodal transport network in Sri Lanka, because the man who cycles has to go on the road. The man who walks, even on the main Kalambukandi road, some places has major places, right, have to walk on the road, right, and we have integrated pedestrian crossings to the road. So I feel like coming up with you know solutions for the top without fixing what's there on the bottom is something that's not viable. charindra chandrasena 13:08 The Anushka isn't it also about low hanging fruit and then the longer term plans because to fix transportation in any country, Dhananath Fernando 13:19 yeah, charindra chandrasena 13:20 it's a multi-year plan. Speaker 1 13:22 Yes. charindra chandrasena 13:23 So, are we going to ask, or is the government going to ask people to, you know, buy it? We are getting it sorted. Just you know, stay with us. Bear with us for four years. Speaker 1 13:38 Okay. charindra chandrasena 13:38 Right. After that, like that, we'll fix it. Speaker 1 13:41 Yeah. charindra chandrasena 13:41 Or are you going to do the short term measures? And I see the metro as a as a short term measure. Right. Without fixing the actual connectivity, the road network, what the metro is trying to do is take people out of their personal vehicles. Dhananath Fernando 13:57 Right. charindra chandrasena 13:58 And into the buses. So take take a person who is going to a meeting, right? I mean, obviously people who go to people who are CEOs and all don't travel in buses, but there is a segment of the corporate sector that would travel in buses if they had the option. Yeah. What they now do is they wear the shirt and all tucked in and nice it neat, and then they take the car and they go, and they don't go anywhere from office. They just come back afterwards. Yes. So it's just that commute, but they choose to take the personal transport. Speaker 1 14:33 100% charindra chandrasena 14:34 Now aren't those people the the female employees, the female workforce, who would prefer to go to work without, you know, getting sexually harassed in the buses, would take their own personal transport or a maybe a tuk or a cab. Now aren't those people being moved into the middle? No, Speaker 1 14:56 100% I think I think you can you reduce a certain portion. Of the people using private cars on the road by using by coming up with the metro kind of model, but the thing is, if you are to get people out of the road, connectivity is important because I was speaking to these industry experts because I'm working on a report on how we can improve productivity by improving roads and safety standards in Sri Lanka. So I was talking to this engineer. He was working with the MCC and also this whole LRT thing. So what he said was, we need a transport network. We need to link because the bus doesn't come to the door, right? The bus doesn't come. So someone who has to walk around two kilometres to the bus would consider not taking the bus. Maybe if it rains, or maybe if it's too hot, they're like, "Ah, today it's a warm day. No, let me go in the car. Oh, it's raining. I'll go in the bike or the car. So I feel like the connectivity is also, you know, it plays a key factor when it comes to you know pushing stuff like this because in countries like Australia, you can you get in the car, you go to the train station, you park the this one. I I I'm not sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've not seen proper parking stations in major train stations here. Yeah, right. You park the car near the train station, you get on the train, and you then go to the city. From the city, if you want to move around, then you use the bus. Yeah, so there's a there's a charindra chandrasena 16:20 multi-model transport system coming up, station coming up. I think that's going to have, but I think normal. Normal. Just to add what Anushka Dhananath Fernando 16:26 said, also that the three wheelers. What he said was, we don't have the you call it the last mile coverage, right? You have to get down from the bus and then walk for like 500 metres or two kilometres or whatever, because you are in a by road or some, which you don't have the bus success, so for there you have to have that tri show. Basically, that gives you the last mile coverage. So that's where the tri show is coming into play, and that's what I said at the beginning. That's where the real estate and the land policy has to come. Because ideally, if your you know apartment blocks and all that is in a organised manner, then your bus routes can go through that. So then you need not to have the three wheeler or you know move your vehicle out from the car park or the garage because actually it's through there as a separate and also the people are kind of what you call the condensed to one particular location. So then it's easier. But now it's all over. It's too scattered. Everyone wants like a 10 perch, 15 per land plot and build their own house. So as a result, it's like so scattered where you have to have a last mile coverage. Sorry, Anoush. Yeah, no. Speaker 1 17:32 I think the initiative of this whole metro thing is good, but I think we have to look at the bigger picture because I was talking to Sudarag, who was there in our last podcast yesterday, right? So he was telling me he lives right behind Advocata, and I went through his lane the other day, and he was showing me how there's no walking path, right? And it's a like a it looks like a single lane road, but where it's not single lane. This this both cars going opposite directions, and he's like, people, I have to walk through this lane, so if he walks, he would he takes the courage to walk actually. But I'm I'm sorry, but if it was me, I wouldn't. I would rather if I'm to come to Advocata, I'd you know ask someone to drop me or use an charindra chandrasena 18:13 Uber Speaker 1 18:13 or come in the car, because that respect is associated with it. Yeah, charindra chandrasena 18:18 true, and I think another thing is walking paths, like pedestrian areas, and then we don't have cycle paths either. Speaker 1 18:27 No, we don't. Yeah, charindra chandrasena 18:28 and that also would because see most people when they commute, it's not very sunny. It's between seven and nine, so it's not too hot. And in the evening again after five usually, so some people could take that option, but then obviously they don't want to get run over because there are no dedicated lanes. And you look at maybe a country like the Netherlands, which which you know has prioritised cycling. I think there's a lot to improve. I just think that this is better than nothing. Speaker 1 19:05 100% Yeah, right. The metro charindra chandrasena 19:07 system, and I I do believe that some people, guys that live maybe by the side of the road, wouldn't mind this option if they don't. Like you said, if you if we have if they have 500 to 1000 metres to go, then they are not going to want to do it. Maybe, but shorter distance, I think. Yeah, Dhananath Fernando 19:33 on the bicycles, I think definitely the options should be available. That's the most important thing because you switch between options all the time. No, it's not like we are only doing it, you know. We only allow like the metros or private vehicles. I think anybody has to have that option. Either I can use a metro, either I can use my personal vehicle. The choice. Either I can walk, either I can cycle. But cycling, I'm not sure with the weather and all that weather. But I think it should be there as an option. So that's all. Also important when you do the transport planning. These are the what the expert has basically mentioned. But I think we should not forget about the importance of also the housing and all that because then only you can bring the congestion and that also comes with construction. So that's why you you have to have a consolidated effort and also we should also not forget about the economics of it. Economics is basically, I think. Sorry, sorry. charindra chandrasena 20:21 Before we go to the economics, Dana, the housing problem isn't that a result of the congestion? Dhananath Fernando 20:32 It's vice versa. I think it's it's. I mean, it's a it's complementing each other to to make the problem worse because when you have a housing issue, since you cannot afford it, you try to buy a land as I mean as close as possible, which is about let's say 1015 kilometres away actually. But since everybody does it now, you have a congestion problem, and also I think the regulation on the housing, which I am sure Charindran Anushkanu is better, the parking facilities, because on apartment buildings, I think there are so many regulations which actually increases the cost of an apartment. For an example, if someone really doesn't want a car, but having a regulation that every apartment should have a parking slot doesn't really make sense because that increases the price of your apartment, but I think you should have the. But again, it doesn't mean that you should price it higher without a parking spot. But when you have that option, you can bring the cost down. And actually, someone-I mean, let's say someone like you know who lives down the lane who can walk really doesn't need. So for them, it's then convenient. Of course, the value of the apartment will be lower. That's okay, but you have that option, or like you have a so charindra chandrasena 21:47 some people who don't need the parking slots actually rent it out. Rent it Dhananath Fernando 21:50 out, right? So, so likewise, so those regulations has to change, and even I think there are so many regulations. You have like okay, four stories or above, then you have to have an elevator that increases cost. Then you have separate fire. I think all those safety conditions has to be met. But if someone really wants to really do not want to have an elevator, that's your choice. When you buy the apartment, you factor that for that as well, right? But of course, for an emergency or like when there's a patient or someone is ill, then it's a different story, but it's a choice that you make. So I think that's why I said all that has to be considered. The the very quickly the economics that I spoke about. Remember there was a bus lane. I think it's still in operation, but I don't know it's in force. The the the concept was what you need to commute is not vehicles, people. So in a bus or a metro, you commute more pe more people in a shorter space. And productivity-wise, you if you are if you if one person driving one car or like two people comes in the same vehicle, your energy productivity is also low because for a car with a with a weight of like about like what 1000 kilogrammes, only 100 kilogrammes or 200 kilogrammes are commuting. But when it comes to so energy wise, like you are you are fooling 1000 kilogrammes just to commute 200 kilogrammes doesn't make any sense on a productivity point of view. But when it's a bus, you have about 40 people commuting, probably at a so you know probably I don't know the weight of the bus maybe like two tonnes or three tonnes, but the energy the the per per per capita or like the per person productivity is higher. So that's the economics that is there. So you have increase improve productivity by commuting more people, and you give the priority to the bus lane, so then that means you are commuting more people, clearing everything else. So then you have an incentive to get into the bus rather than stuck in the vehicle. So that's where the economics comes in with bus lanes. I think all those options has to be considered. charindra chandrasena 23:56 Right. Another another reason we are talking about this today, this week, one is an ambio ranking. The other one is that in Parliament, it was stated that the LRT project, for all intents and purposes, is dead. That it has been abandoned because it doesn't. I mean, it's not as cost efficient now for the government to do as initially thought, and secondly, it's a it's very very it's a project with a very long horizon, right? Anushka and and and Dana also, you guys can decide who takes this. But initially, is that a good decision or a bad decision? Dhananath Fernando 24:42 I think, to be honest, I haven't done the numbers, but I think some projects like LRP has to be there. Again, it has to be cost. I mean, reflective or cost effective. But I understand certain there are high value projects that you really can. Make it cost reflective. The government or taxpayers has to give a subsidiary. They have to contribute because it's for the larger economic benefit. Because if you have a LRT, of course, you can't cover the cost of an LRT through the ticket over like even 1015 years. But the economic angle that you bring in through that, like the overall economic impact is much higher than that. So that's where I think the evaluation. But I'm not sure. I'm sure depending on the feasibility study, probably they have made it. But I think for sure concepts like LRT transport experts has to comment on whether it's LRT or whether there are other options, yeah. But for sure, there be some public transport development that you know mass commuting methods has to be there. charindra chandrasena 25:49 Well, you you are actually doing some research on this matter. No, understand what what is the yeah answer my question. Speaker 1 25:57 Yes, on the on the backstory, the LRT was supposed to finish if it actually went ahead with when it was initiated. It was supposed to finish last year, right? And talking to this expert, he told me so he was the one leading this LRT thing. By the way, he was telling me the cost of delaying this by one year is 38 billion, right? Is 38 billion? That's the cost of delaying this by one year. So now we have already delayed it by one year, and it's going to continue. So the LRT was made. Why the LRT was made was because so the LRT was supposed to be around in March. What's the number charindra chandrasena 26:36 again? One year delay equals Speaker 1 26:38 38 billion. Billion, right? charindra chandrasena 26:40 38 billion. Speaker 1 26:42 Yes, one year delay, right? So LRT was actually formed around the Malay Bay Corridor. The reason it was done around the Malabe corridor because Malabe didn't have train access, and Malabay was one of the other pathways to get to Kalambu. There's seven out of seven Malabes, one major one, so of the seven, six you can access through train, five actually through train, and the six. Can you can you name the? No, I'm not familiar with the name, but I know the Malabe fact because it's the fact that this one I can get the facts and figures, but they are pretty. Okay, go on. So, so Malabe is another way you can get to Colombo, right? So out of that five, they have designated railways. Right. The sixth one is closer to one railway, so that's you know put for like they were planning to like renovate that and all that. So Malabe was the seventh, right? So that was the whole purpose to bring LRT to that, and LRT is something that goes over, right? It it doesn't disrupt anything in The bottom, so and this was backed by Jaika. This is a Japanese. I can get the name. It's some Japanese corporation. Dhananath Fernando 27:49 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 27:50 Right. That's Dhananath Fernando 27:51 the Japanese funding funding organisation. Organisation. Donor organisation. Speaker 1 27:54 Yes, and charindra chandrasena 27:56 Japan International Cooperation Agency Agency. Yes, Speaker 1 27:58 yes, and funded by the ADB, backed up by ADB. So to to be backed up by the ADB, we have to know that this is a proper research done, right? So, but it didn't go ahead. Apparently, it didn't go ahead after the government changed, and you know there were inside politics that happened and all that. It didn't go ahead. So, should it happen now? Is a question on how are we being financed? How are we being backed? You know, are we who are we being backed by and looked after by? So, and I think this Jaika thing also they give us a 12 year grace period if I'm right. So you can get it sorted and not pay for 12 years, yeah, and then go ahead with the payment. This is something. This charindra chandrasena 28:39 is a classic example of that, you know, missing the bus that Sri Lanka has done for 70 years. We had that opportunity at that time, you know. Yeah, you sometimes get these vouchers to go to outlets and all of that. They haven't expired it. Yes, you can't go three, four years later and say, "Anya, I forgot. Can I get buy for this voucher? That voucher expired in 2020, 2021, and I mean, honestly, there has to be mechanism to to penalise the the decision makers who decided to let this go, because right now I think the point that the government is making is now we can't do it. Speaker 1 29:28 Yeah, charindra chandrasena 29:29 six years ago is a different matter. As you if as you say it's 38 billion a year, just do the math of how much that is. Yeah. Ah, ah. So it's it's it's criminal, but that's how it is. Now, in that plan, do you know what the benefit would have been, Ashkar? Yeah, Speaker 1 29:51 yeah. So charindra chandrasena 29:53 in the LRT plan, assume it went to schedule. Okay. Okay. And now it's done. 2025. About 26, it's done. Yeah, Speaker 1 30:01 so anyway, looking at our reports, right? Our congestion cost. If you look at Sri Lanka's congestion cost, it's about 3% of our GDP, which is a lot, right? So the LRT had actually two phases, right? The first one was Malabe, and then they wanted to extend it to Kaduwela and Kotal, right? And this was not just the completion of LRT. This was LRT with, as I mentioned, as Dana mentioned, the multimodal transport, right, where you can go from you know the train to the LRT and then connecting. Facts and figures. I have the MCC agreement with me, which is completely different. I couldn't get the facts and figures on how the benefits of the LRT is right, which I have to look into because the paper is still in progress. Right. But yeah, what it. But but charindra chandrasena 30:52 it. But I mean, I think there's consensus on the fact that it would have eased traffic congestion. 100% Speaker 1 30:57 Yes. charindra chandrasena 30:57 Heavily. Yes. Significantly. Yes. And that that would have benefited, okay, Malambe, maybe Kaduwela, Speaker 1 31:05 Kottawe, Kottawa, that that route, charindra chandrasena 31:07 that entire route, Speaker 1 31:08 yeah, charindra chandrasena 31:09 because like you said, and that's probably why that road is so congested. Exactly, it's ridiculous. Yeah, compared to the Western Speaker 1 31:18 province carries around 40% of the country's output, the western province alone, right? Western province covers just 5.7% of the land area, and that produces 40% charindra chandrasena 31:29 Yeah, Speaker 1 31:30 right. So because of 40% charindra chandrasena 31:31 of Speaker 1 31:32 40% of the economy's output, right? Output, economic output, right? GDP. So this gridlock, the gridlock that is cost because of this in Colombo, because of Colombo traffic, we lose about 180 to 240 billion rupees a year, billion rupees a year because of Kalamu traffic only, charindra chandrasena 31:54 because of Kalambo only, because of Colombo, Western province, Western province, Western province, Western province Speaker 1 31:58 only. Sorry, Western province only. Yeah, 180 to 240 billion Dhananath Fernando 32:03 a year. A Speaker 1 32:04 year. charindra chandrasena 32:04 Okay, right. This is from where? Speaker 1 32:06 I got this from just then. There was Dhananath Fernando 32:08 a study done, I think, for the MCC. I'm not sure whether whether this was quoted by the same. This was from the UN. This was the UN. This was from the UN. And charindra chandrasena 32:20 which year, Anishina? Speaker 1 32:21 This is 20 24/9, charindra chandrasena 32:23 2024. Yes. Speaker 1 32:25 And ADB, the ADB stated that 3.8% Sri Lanka loses about 3.5% Sorry, 3.5% of its GDP due to transport systematic inefficiencies. So, I mean, we can't argue with ADB, Research, World Bank, right? Dhananath Fernando 32:46 And even the back of the calculation, back of the envelope calculation. Like I live in Morotono, so it takes about one hour to come here. So two hours a day. Do you use charindra chandrasena 32:56 the road or the train? No, Dhananath Fernando 33:00 and I earlier used the train. charindra chandrasena 33:01 Okay, Dhananath Fernando 33:02 train was faster, but of course it's not reliable. But even the challenge was for me to get to the train. It takes about 30 minutes from train to the Kolpiti station again 30 minutes, but from the train station to again here another 30 minutes. But my stretch from Morotuo to Kolpiti is very convenient. charindra chandrasena 33:22 Yeah, it's 30 minutes. Just it's Dhananath Fernando 33:23 it's 30 to 40 minutes. charindra chandrasena 33:24 Okay, from motor to that's quite far. Yeah, Dhananath Fernando 33:27 exactly. So, but you have to cash a express train. No, okay, yeah. Not like the slow train. Yeah. But yeah, but it's yeah. So, but even if maximum you take two hours. So two hours means for a month if you work 22 days, about 44 hours, right? That means almost two days a month, 24 hour two days. charindra chandrasena 33:51 It's Dhananath Fernando 33:51 not eight hour, right? Eight hour, it's more. 24 hour two days. That means for 12 months, about 24 days. So that means if you work for a year, actually a month of 24 hour days, ah, not like, is just spent inside a vehicle, and that's only me. And if you can get in one hour, you actually lucky. Not all days can you can get in in one hour. I basically either come early or I come late and go late. So then, actually, I cut off some of the traffic. But that's the same for anyone who lives down, you know, Kasbah or two more or two or a gamma, a talamalam bay. That anyone, batala mullah, is kind of the same. So look at the productivity loss overall. This is, I think, it hasn't been captured in the ADV survey, it is mainly the the the vehicle, the the traffic. Of course, you can't cut it down to zero, but even if you cut it down by half or 25% it's still a big saving. charindra chandrasena 34:51 Yeah, the the the the fact that now it's not happening is a lot of tea. What is the government's alternative? Because they are saying that they are going to focus on on the smaller projects in terms of easing the congestion. Do you know what the government is focusing on now, Anusha? And and and and also overall beyond the government, what should happen? Speaker 1 35:18 I read on what the government is planning to focus. So it was a metro thing, and I think they were trying to bring this traffic light thing. If I'm right, if I if I read it right, so I was reading this article in the morning, but there's not anything major, to be honest. There's not anything major. If you look compare the work that they were supposed to do, I'm still stuck in that. By the way, the work they were supposed to do with the MCC and this LRT, this is the Western Regional Mega Police Transport Planning, right? That would have completely shaped Sri Lanka's transport. And I travel. I daily commute. I daily commute. I've been commuting from Kampa to Malabe ever since I was schooling, right, and that has been something that I've observed, and and that's why I'm still stuck on it on how this change would have actually changed someone's complete life, you know, and charindra chandrasena 36:14 yeah, it would have changed lives. Life absolutely Dhananath Fernando 36:17 changing completely, and the other thing that I wanted about to tell you is the in in terms of sorry the the the other regulatory factors for an example in metro the challenge the the option available is you can have standing passengers right but if you have a private AC bus operating inside the western province, if it's air conditioned, you cannot have standing passengers, right? So one reason why the metro is at least break making, I mean break even or like making a profit, you have allow the standing passengers. But actually, if you allow the same model to be imported for the private sector and get into a common timetable, I'm sure there will be more metros. So that means actually you are cutting down more vehicles entering to Colombo. That's one thing that definitely we have to look into. The other thing was actually there was a model road done from Colombo to Moroto. If you if you actually check Morato that stretch, Moroto or Kato Bad up to Mount Lavinia. There was a World Bank project. I think happened many years ago. If you look at actually the pedestal crossings, the roads, signage, everything was done again. Now it has all deteriorated because of poor maintenance. But if you if you recall, even the crossings, it is not like a straight crossing. You cross and then you have an aisle, and then you walk towards the opposite direction. So then, actually, you see the vehicles coming, and then you cross the road. So that was done as a model road, and there were iron steel fences where you cannot people cannot jump over. So as a result, you there was a model road done, but it wasn't maintained. It was just there, and actually, the one of the bus lanes is operating also on the Gold Road, which I commute every day. But it really didn't happen. So there, there were some safety net. So there were proper aisles. There were steel fences for the walking paths. So as a result, people just don't they you know get into the road? So as a result, there were more safety measures, and there were no like you know drainage, whatever that thing in the middle of the road because then like the vehicles like turn this side that side to avoid that. So everything was done on a on a model road concept, but it wasn't maintained. Yeah, that's the side side. I charindra chandrasena 38:41 I I personally now we talk about the road, the standard of roads. No, I honestly don't see that increasing or improving significantly because it comes with so many other issues. Right, widening of a road means you have to, you know, break down whatever is on either side, and then that is a process that takes a long time. There's relocation, a lot of factors like that. I feel like the solution will be the rail. I can't see a solution, short-term solution beyond that because unless a project like this comes in, right, like a latte, Speaker 2 39:24 yeah, charindra chandrasena 39:24 what what are we going to do, right? Increase buses, one thing. The other thing I feel is rail. If we can push more and more people, Speaker 1 39:35 I think one thing we can actually do when it comes to the rail is to look at. I think former governments have looked at this, but it never went ahead. It's the electrification of it, right? So I was reading the 2024 report of this of the Sri Lanka rail. 57, 57,000 kilometres were travelled by M. Empty trains in 2024, 57,000 kilometres of empty train in empty trains travel, right? And we have spent 13 billion rupees on fuel in 2024 just for the railway, and our loss was 11 billion over just a little bit over 11 billion. Dhananath Fernando 40:18 Wow! Speaker 1 40:19 So trains are good, but we need to fix the train. Correct, right? Because they have identified according to their schedule. If a train is delayed by under five minutes, that's not a delay, right? That's not a delay. That's arrived on time. So only trains that arrived on time, including trains that arrived after within five minutes of the time, only 55 for 56% of the trains came. 44 were late, and out of that 44% 25% 25% came after 10 minutes. So it's good that we push people to train because I think it can carry around 30,000 people one go, right? But then again, we need to fix the trains. We need to fix the whole railway system. We need to also integrate, like I said, if you are pushing people to trains, we need to integrate the multimodal transport. charindra chandrasena 41:13 30,000 figure is for what? The the Speaker 1 41:15 transport again. The the train can carry commute 30,000 people at one stretch, and then so if you take up and down, that's 6000 compared to a bus, which can take a little, a lot less, and cars. So we can basically bring so much people off, right? We can bring so much people off the roads if we improve the train, rail and the multimodal tran. So I Dhananath Fernando 41:38 think it's a separate podcast, Jari, because on trains, one way to look at it is also the real estate value. Because all these train stations, look at Kolpiti station, look at Bumbala PTS station, look at Peta, Maradon. All are very, very high valued real estate, and it's sad that they are not doing anything. I mean, look at the. charindra chandrasena 42:00 What what what are you proposing they do with it? Dhananath Fernando 42:02 Anything like shopping malls, housing. charindra chandrasena 42:05 Ah yeah yeah, but the the station stays there, right? Exactly. Dhananath Fernando 42:08 Yeah, and even the stretch is beautiful. I mean, you are just watching the the stretch that I travel. That's one reason I prefer train because it's so peaceful. If you get a seat, and of course I was travelling on most of the empty trains, which leaves Morotua by 805 in the morning. So that could have been because that railway owns sort of lands in Sri Lanka, and as per the railway, and also it's a don't forget railway is not a state-owned enterprise; it's a department, right? With lot of land, with lot of losses, with lot of government support. So you have to release this land, and even for them to give like this is for advertising space, it's very difficult. So as a result, you can develop it, and from that real estate value, actually you can reinvent reinvest it back for electrification or anything on the rail. I think we can actually go for electrification. So, so charindra chandrasena 43:06 just just on on electrification that you mentioned, Anushka, and the railway stations that Daranat spoke about, the government on electrification. There is a project starting next year, early 2027, to electrify the Sri Lankan rail system. I don't have the completion date yet, but the fact that that's been discussed and and and being planned to start the approvals are done apparently. So it's starting early next year. Dhananath Fernando 43:37 Correct. And also one more sorry, go ahead. The charindra chandrasena 43:39 other one about about what you said, Dana, about the railway stations. There is a project called Dream Destination, Sihina Gamananta in Singhala, to modernise the railway stations. And one of the ones that are being completed is a Mardana station. So, like that, it'll hopefully go from station to station. Maybe that could address some of the things that you were talking about. Dhananath Fernando 44:07 Yeah, but the important thing you said is also the model. But you know, just because of developing, investing, putting government or private sector money for the station, in my view, won't take us anywhere. It is good, but you know what we need is a different model. So even in the train, if we electrify, we have to also check the electricity. Already we have a we have issues now on the energy prices, energy managing demand and supply. So that's something that we are definitely think about. But it's good that that approach being taken. But the other thing is also on the train, like the because the prices also need to go up because what you need to do is offer train as an alternative for people who take you know drive vehicles, not as an alternative for people who don't have vehicles. Because then only the number of vehicles coming in the road will come down, and that will help people who really cannot afford, you know. Can take the buses. Of course, you can have few compartments for low prices. You know, you can have standing passengers and all that. But for people actually who can afford, who can pay like 200, 300 rupees, which is still profitable. I mean, still affordable for them because if they try to drive the vehicle, it's like more expensive than that. charindra chandrasena 45:20 Yeah. Dhananath Fernando 45:21 So, so that's how you have to think about it, and offer I mean speed trains or something at different different price points, and like at congestion hours that you increase the prices, so then you make better profit, so it won't like make losses like 13 billion or whatever. And one good thing that to evaluate how we haven't evolved on the trains. Just think of the announcement that they make. Like generally, in any announcement, you say, "I mean, I goan, Subuda, or good morning. The next train will arrive. But the say the tone that they say, I mean, for years it's the same. You don't say good morning. You don't say I born. Dungeon is then pabi ni dumbria. That's the same. But it's amazing that you have a customer friendly world that you can easily say I born. Nah, we are going to be dumbria gamma karan ni mada. You can easily say that, but even it hasn't evolved because you really don't have an incentive on that evolving Speaker 1 46:32 aspect. I also want to mention one of my friends mentioned that when he came down and he was travelling, I think to Jaffna through Maradana. Maradana does not have. I think Marana is one of the main stations. If I'm right, it didn't have the card payment. Dhananath Fernando 46:46 Okay. It Speaker 1 46:47 does not accept card payments. And there's no ATM close by, so you have to go. So just imagine, he's a local. Just imagine a foreigner comes, right? Just they use their card to pay, and they're like no card payments, right? And anyway, we have to agree the attitude is also they are not good, right? Of the I mean, until charindra chandrasena 47:05 until recently you couldn't pay by card on expressway. Expressway, yeah, yeah, that's just ridiculous. Yeah, I think I have literally had to park the car and I've done the same. I've done the same way. I've Speaker 1 47:15 stopped and then gone and they they take the licence as a security and then you go. I mean, talking about this expressway, this was also initiative under the MCC to have electronic toll booths. So speaking to this expert, he said an expressway lane can carry 20,000 vehicles per hour. charindra chandrasena 47:32 Yeah, Speaker 1 47:33 and then so two lanes 40,000. charindra chandrasena 47:35 Yeah, Speaker 1 47:35 but our the toll the manual toll booth takes a minimum of 10 seconds for you to do the transaction. So per hour you can only clear 360 cars. So we have all seen during rush hours how much time we have to spend. You you spend five minutes going from A to B, but you spend 20 minutes at the toll door. So we are losing the whole purpose of this is also going. charindra chandrasena 47:59 Yeah. So guys, we're out of time. Is there anything else that you wanted to mention that that you couldn't get in? Otherwise, we can just yeah. If I Speaker 1 48:08 could just mention one thing, I think it's very important to know that like if we are taxing so much over 150% to I think up to 300% on vehicles, I think it's very important that the other aspect of things are male, right? Because we are technically discouraging people from buying vehicles, right? We are trying to push them out and acting like creating a disincentive. Even though these not vehicles are not a demerit good, it's an economic asset that can be used to create economic activity, which can create GDP, right? Economic growth output. So, if we are to discourage people from that, then we have to give them an option. charindra chandrasena 48:46 Exactly. Speaker 1 48:47 Otherwise, what you are doing is you are telling people not to buy cars by taxing it, and then you have poor transport. You don't have multimodal transport methods or networks, and you you expect people to come to work. Yeah, because the basic concept charindra chandrasena 49:00 of a luxury item means that you have very good options below that. There you go. Yeah, that is why that becomes luxury. Speaker 1 49:07 Yes, here charindra chandrasena 49:08 vehicles are taxed as a luxury item. Speaker 1 49:11 Yes, charindra chandrasena 49:12 and yet you don't have an own vehicle under that. So what's what do you have? You have the buses where you, I mean, have to go all all pressed together. Speaker 1 49:21 Exactly. charindra chandrasena 49:21 So quite unfortunate. Okay, we are done. Dana, can you quickly? Yes. So, Dhananath Fernando 49:27 please consider joining as an Advocata insider, because we are an independent, nonpartisan think tank. So, we wanted to provide an independent overview about the economy. So, which generally gets criticism from both sides. So, as a result, we want to keep our funding independent, and we want our audience to support us to bring that independent view. So please consider becoming an advocacy. It's just 12,000 rupees per year, 1000 rupees a month. We all know it's not a big amount, 1000 rupees a month. And by supporting the Advocata vision, mission, you help to improve the policies, public policies of Sri Lanka, and to improve the living standard of Sri Lankans. But of course, by doing that, you also get additional benefits. That is an analysis on exchange rate, vehicle markets, property market, multiple analysis that you get, and exclusive access for our content. So consider becoming an advocacy charindra chandrasena 50:24 right. So thank you, Anushka. Thanks, as always, and thank you for tuning in. Let us know your feedback on this topic and any other suggest any other topics that you would like us to discuss. We'll see you next week. Take care. Transcribed by https://otter.ai