Speaker 1  00:11
Hi, welcome back to another episode on Advocata Studio. This programme is sponsored by Advocata Insiders. Thank you very much for your support. I have with me a young entrepreneur in the tourism and hospitality sector, mr. Maxim Vikram Singh. He serves as the director of marketing and business development for several hospitality companies, including Thema Collection. Interesting, he's also a part of Ambayalos, Sri Lanka's first entirely women-led and operated hotel in Kandalama. We wish to touch on many topics, including female participation and representation in the tourism industry, and much more. With that note, hi Maxim, how are you doing?

Speaker 2  00:48
I'm good. It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1  00:50
Pleasure to have you on the show as well. So, as a younger boy representing Sri Lanka's tourism and hospitality industry, how do you navigate this industry A and B. I'm sure there are many challenges and also many opportunities that you look forward to. Can you walk us through that, please?

Speaker 2  01:08
Yeah, I think so. I think I mean you know our tourism tourism in Sri Lanka. I mean, it's an industry that's been there for a long time, but always quite troubled and always, you know, whether it be the war, whether it be you know the Easter Sunday attacks and all of that. So I think there's definitely a lot to learn, and I think I'm quite lucky. I mean, I come from a tourism family, so my father and even my uncle as a good role model. So I've learned quite a little bit about it. But I think also I think the way people are travelling is changing, and I think you know the industry does need a lot of a bit of a younger perspective because you know travel in another 1015 years might be drastically different to what it was when let's say my father was starting where it was all organised travel that you know you came through an operator it's very rare nowadays you know it's people sometimes just book a plane ticket to Sri Lanka and then figure it out once they land, you know, through apps and through AI as well. Now, so it's something that's really changing quite a bit, and you know, it's it's really wonderful because you know there are things that, especially in our industry, that experience only only experience can teach. But there's also, I think, a need for that fresh perspective and understanding of you know where the world is going and where how tourism is shifting as well.

Speaker 1  02:24
Right, I like the fact that you touched on AI. I mean, I think it's quite known that people use AI to kind of come up with their itineraries and etc. Is there anything differently that you need to do in your strategy in terms of business development? I know that's your area as well to kind of counter that new development in the industry.

Speaker 2  02:42
Yeah, I think look, it's it's it's really vital, especially if you look at hotels, for example. You know, for us, for some of our properties, you know, we really need to be ranking like we used to try and always try and rank up there in terms of SEO. Now we're trying to do that in GEO, so generative engine optimization. So it's it's really kind of change the perspectives. It's like you're now focusing on optimising on two different levels. I think it's still quite a new thing. So it's something that we are also still trying to understand and figure out how to get up there. But it's something that we are generally looking at. I mean, how can our hotels rank ahead? But I think there's also something that I see it because we also run a travel company. And one thing I've seen with AI, I've done my you know research, searching, and you know seeing create me this itinerary or copying pasting emails that clients are sending just to see what it says. One thing is I think even like on a destination level, we have you know we have so many beautiful areas in Sri Lanka that people don't touch on. For example, even at Thema, if you look at us, some of our properties and places that people might have not heard of or gone. So, how do you get those areas on the map as well? And I think with people, if people start relying more and more on AI, they won't have you know that importance of someone telling them no. You should go to this place. It's not that popular, but the experience is 10 times better. So I think that's unfortunately that's a bit of the negative I see with it as well. So it's up to us as companies as well to push those other locations, but also maybe even on a global destination level that we push and feed that right information onto our blogs, onto our sites, so that you know that information is out there.

Speaker 1  04:28
In terms of challenges to the industry, I think it's important we touch on that as well because Sri Lanka's economy depends heavily on tourism. I mean, this part of the world is not new to geopolitical tensions and the impacts of it, right? And as we evidently saw in the last couple of months as well, as an industry or as a young person who represents the industry, how do you navigate these challenges?

Speaker 2  04:53
I think you need to be a bit flexible because, I mean, I started, I would say, formally working in 2000. 17, and since then, I mean, we've had I've had my fair share of challenges to deal with. So, I mean, 2019 is the Sunday, then COVID, economic crisis, now the Iran crisis as well. So, I think it just teaches you you have to be quite adaptable. You have to also have a fairly you know, good cushion as well. But you also can't be too abrupt. You know, you can't just. I've seen, like, for example, certain hotels that thought, okay, during COVID, let's totally close down, which might make more sense in a way. But you know, those hotels probably in the end paying for renovations and getting back up. And also, there's

Speaker 1  05:40
a workforce that depends on the income. Exactly, exactly. So

Speaker 2  05:44
you have to be a bit. You have to have a few safety cushions here and there, but you have to also. I mean, we also have to understand that in our industry, we're talking about people making a trip and coming to us. It's not just a physical product. It's not a tea bag. So it will always be like the most vulnerable industry, no matter what happens. Our tourism will always be vulnerable, so we have to be adaptable. Yeah,

Speaker 1  06:08
right. On that note, in terms of talking about challenges and also, you know, how much novelty is important to this industry, I'd like to touch on Ambayal. Do I know that's something close to your heart as well, and from what I've read online, you've been behind the conceptualization of Sri Lanka's first ever women-led and operated hotel in Sri Lanka. How did this come about? And also, really like you to touch on the operational challenges of kind of really initiating such a concept in a country like Sri Lanka.

Speaker 2  06:37
Yeah, well, I think firstly we were always, I mean, something we always looked at through all our properties on how to engage more and more female participation. We honestly, we honestly, I mean, always been inspired by women and the strength they have because I think, especially if you go to like smaller, you know, village restaurants, you go to smaller, or even you know, just you go to you know with your own parents and all. You see, sometimes women are not only taking care of their household; they are also taking care of sometimes you know they're cooking for strangers. They're providing incredible hospitality. I mean, just it goes far beyond that. And I think one day when we also realised how bad Sri Lanka was with in terms of female participation, I think below around 8% in the entire tourism workforce or hospitality workforce, and we were honestly we always had this idea that we wanted to create a hot property like that because I think there's a lot of biases in people's minds as well, but not just I would say in management or in terms of like supervisors or mid-management. That's definitely there. There's also biases or discrimination in terms of the laws that were put in place. I think when we opened Ambayalu till last till this January, we've kind of been in a grey legal area of operating. But also, I think you know, in in in in the side of you know women's support systems of families, there's a huge bias and huge I would say you know bad look of the industry. You know, I mean, husbands don't want wives to work. Their parents don't want their children to work there, and you know, there is definitely a yeah, there's definitely that stigma around working in tourism, which is something to break. So I think our idea with Ambayal was trying actually show that one for one, women are capable of doing any job in hospitality and breaking that mindset that existed, but also showing that you know you can create a safe environment and creating a place where women will want to come and work, so that you know hopefully we can slowly break down those stigmas because you know we need more and more participation in in hospitality, and the female workforce is almost, I would say, slightly ignored.

Speaker 1  09:08
Yeah, it is, and I'm really glad you touched on the legal framework in Sri Lanka, and you also spoke about the practical implications that has had on Ambayalu and your operations at large, because Sri Lanka, when you speak about laws that I don't like using this word allow, but that allow women to work at night in Sri Lanka. It's very sector specific and occupation specific. And even when it comes to the tourism and hospitality industry in Sri Lanka, I know there was a reform that happened in January of this year that expanded the number of occupations in which women can work at night in the hospitality industry, but from what you say, it has been in a grey area from last year. So, can you kind of shed more light on that? The kind of practical implications that you're that you've had to face because of it, and you continue to do despite the reforms that have happened recently.

Speaker 2  09:55
Yeah, I think you know. I mean, when we opened, if I'm not mistaken, the. The law was that women could only work till 11, I believe. Yeah, 11 o'clock, 11 p.m. So it was that, and the other one is that you need even the term is I would say a little bit you know sexist. You need bar men. You need bar men to be able to operate a legally licenced alcohol bar, so you need you need a man to be able to sign. So when we opened, actually, we had these challenges, but we kind of I would say ignored them because sometimes in Sri Lanka, if you go to wait till things happen, we can't wait that long. You know, we have a hotel to open. We are strong with our concept. We believe that it's something that the country needs, and we believe that it's something that will do a lot of good. So I think sometimes we just have to be a bit bullish and go ahead and you know see what comes. But I mean, thankfully the government has made that change. I know in the past governments have tried to make these changes, but you know have succumbed to silly pressure actually, which you know that's what politics is. Unfortunately, it's

Speaker 1  11:03
been in the making from 2023, if I'm not mistaken. The reform that actually took place in January-it has been in the works. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2  11:10
But I think even before that, I think I think the late Mangala Samarita also spoke about this. Spoke

Speaker 1  11:16
about it. Spoke about

Speaker 2  11:17
it and say we need to change these things. But you know, I mean, we're very thankful, honestly, that the government has changed it. But I mean, we were able to operate a year without all of this, and you know, Sri and tourism in Sri Lanka is industry that is somewhat, I would say, quite informal in an aspect. We as a company try to do everything by the book, and it's very frustrating to be honest. And thankfully, I mean, we started getting the questions, and thankfully, they did change the law because after you know, after I think opening it, it you know, those questions did come into play. But you know, those laws actually prevent women from actually succeeding and coming ahead, and maybe already create those biases in middle management as well, because you know if you look at a hotel, you know it is hotels of a certain standard have to have like a have to be on call 24/7. You have to have receptionists. You have to have a night manager, and you know if a lady cannot be a night manager by law, she might not be able to prove herself and move up the ladder. So you know these things. We're so thankful that they're that they're gone, and you know it's it's it's because you know it's it's totally unconstitutional as well, right? Our constitution says that you know there can't be discrimination, you know,

Speaker 1  12:35
based on gender. Based

Speaker 2  12:36
on gender, so I think it's time that all these laws. I mean, I don't know about other industries for his time, where all of them are just you know repealed because you know we have a constitution that says one thing,

Speaker 1  12:47
right?

Speaker 2  12:47
And then you have laws which are not even laws that were written by Sri Lankans sometimes.

Speaker 1  12:53
Right. Yeah. Going back to Ambayalu again, great initiative. So congratulations on that. I'd also like to touch on training now. These women, yes, has been a change to the law, reform to the law. Now some of them can be employed at night in your sector, the tourism industry. Now, how do you train these women to kind of take up leadership roles? Maybe management, upper management, because that's very important, right? Now you're able to work at night, but also career progression is very important. How do you approach this?

Speaker 2  13:23
Well, I think I think the beauty is also is that with Ambayalu is that you know the whole workforce except bar one, and I'll tell you why that one person there's one man working there. They're all ladies, so they're actually inspired and they have you know role models that are also ladies. If you go to another hotel, you might not have that opportunity. So I think that's definitely one one barrier that really that really comes up. But I think in terms of training, what we did is we actually hired our staff much earlier than we would for a normal hotel. We hired good six months, you know, our maintenance teams, our managers, our supervisors, and we train them at another hotel, which is close by, called Alia, and we really spend a lot of time actually training and providing them that knowledge and and that training because, you know, things like maintenance in a hotel, extremely vital sector. I mean, probably one of the most vital sectors no one sees. But you only see it when your AC doesn't work. But if they are not, you know, capable and have that knowledge on how to go. I mean, the technical knowledge is there. We had an incredible lady who was a graduate of University of Moratuwa who ran our department for us, and you know, but they still need to understand how you work in a hotel. What are the requirements? What are the needs? How to prioritise work? So that training is something that we've done, and we actually, I mean, in a way, really hired them a lot earlier than we usually do for new hotel project to to provide that training.

Speaker 1  14:58
Right. I'd also like to touch on. I mean, initiatives like these are very important, like you said, to improve female labour force participation, and that's something even the IMF has recognised as important under the present EFF, right? Yeah. So I I'm trying to understand what metrics do you use to determine whether these initiatives are successful beyond media attention, because I'm sure you must have garnered a lot of attention from the media when you first started. But when you sustain it, what metrics do you use to see what impact it has?

Speaker 2  15:29
I think, look, in terms of metrics, I think where I mean we're actively year on year, month on month, looking at our participation, our female participation within our entire group, not just Ambayalu, because Ambayalu is, in a way, a bit of a sexist project because we are only hiring women there.

Speaker 1  15:47
Okay,

Speaker 2  15:47
but but there's a reason for it. But I think what, for example, what we've realised is that since we opened Ambayalu, we've seen that there is a lot more. We've been able to actually train and nurture women to come and work in other properties as well, and that has we've seen that if you ignore Ambayalu and you look at our Tema collection pre and post, we've seen that we've had a huge increase in female participation, and the reason for that I would say is that it definitely shows that you know. I mean, it probably. Yeah, I'm. I'm sure it just. And it also shows that you know sometimes with within an organisation you need to grow and you need to. So they are able to maybe go and go to another hotel and you know continue working there and get a promotion and work there. So that's something that's. I mean, that's been quite, quite in terms of metrics that've been quite good to see.

Speaker 1  16:41
On a more friendlier note, can I ask you by why it's called Ambayalu?

Speaker 2  16:45
Yeah, so Ambayalu. I mean, the obvious one is that there were mangoes. There's a lot of mangoes on the property. On the property, and you know, we like. I think we like ever since Malu Malu. If you look before that, the number of Sri Lankan names, other than the name of the place used, was really low. Actually, it was always like you know, you know, an English name or something like that. So we love you know using a Sri Lankan name. And the story of Ambayalu is a truly beautiful story. It's about friendship. It's about you know loyalty and things like that, and you know, I mean, the team there-they have you know that nice, you know, in you know they have that nice camaraderie and friendship, and we also wanted to create you know that nice friendly feeling there. And I think conceptually also, we've always very interested in pushing forward Sri Lankan, I would say Sri Lankan cinema, Sri Lankan literature, and when you go to the hotel, you see posters of some incredible Sri Lankan films. And

Speaker 1  17:48
tourism is an incredible way through which you can do that, right? Exactly,

Speaker 2  17:51
exactly. And I think something very, very important. So I think that really helped us really understand, and that was anyway as part of what our conceptual ideas were for, you know, in terms of decor and all of that, but I think it just made a lot of sense. And I think you know, and we we like a name that's a bit different as well in our group. So yeah,

Speaker 1  18:09
lovely. I'd like to touch on business outcomes as well, right? So when you have an operation like Ambeallo that is completely women-led and operated, how has it impacted your business outcomes, like staff retention, guest satisfaction, productivity, profitability, and etc.

Speaker 2  18:26
Look, I think it's you know it's it's it's it's been quite quite good. I would say. I mean, it's very hard thing to really gauge because you know, I mean, with Amayalu, there's no before and after. It was always created as you know, women run and lead hotel, so it's very hard to really say because at the end of the day, you know, the hotel in itself speaks for it. But what I what I can say is in terms of our metrics of guest satisfaction, we are you know very much we have very high standards within all our properties, and I would say Ambayalu is definitely on the higher end of all of that, and in terms of retention, I think you know it's been quite good comparatively to other properties as well. There's been some really good retention, but you know there's also I mean been you know what's the beauty also is that you know we see there's a lot of women that actually actively wanted to come and work from Bayalu, so it's actually in a way you know. Even though you know staff will turn over, sometimes it's key positions, sometimes it's you know minor staff. As we, but you know the team has always been able to you know come back and still have those high levels of guest satisfaction. So I think it's a real testament to the team and what they've done there.

Speaker 1  19:42
Are there any personal stories coming from the staff that you obviously can share that is intertwined with Ambayal or any of your properties to kind of really give weight to the conversation we're having at the moment, the policy issues we've been discussing about the legal framework, etc. Any personal stories that you can? I think

Speaker 2  19:58
I mean. The story that was most touching for me is that you know I mean we do a lot of there's a lot of institutes and smaller schools that are teaching hospitality and you know cooking and things like that in that region and we off we try to collaborate with them as much as possible at Ambayalu and everywhere else and you know I think it was a few days after the opening and we had done a session with some ladies from a school who had come, and you know, all of a sudden we just see like you know they go around, they meet you know all the people, all the chefs, and all the people in all the departments, and all of a sudden there was this very emotional moment between the chef and a lady and a girl who was just studying cookery, but you know her her parents have actually pushed her to go for this school, but they don't want her to go and work in a hotel. And you know just that interaction of you know Ahij Shefwa as well at the time, who was saying that yes, I faced exactly what you faced when you when you were young, but you know there are ways you know you can overcome it, and and what even the the the the girl who had come was saying is that you know I mean now at least my parents can see that there are places where my future by where this future is possible, and you know I think you know little moments like that actually makes the whole experience worthwhile. I mean, it's it's yeah, it's it just really it's just really beautiful and shows that it

Speaker 1  21:28
ties together as someone who's been behind the conceptualization. Yeah,

Speaker 2  21:31
yeah, and you know, it really shows that we still have a bit of way to go, and those biases, you know, sometimes they don't come from a bad place. It's just people, you know, that's the way you know people think in certain areas or certain backgrounds, and it's somehow. And I think

Speaker 1  21:46
in terms of night work, it is most of that concern is also based on protection of your daughter, your sister, your mother. Right,

Speaker 2  21:54
exactly. And I think you know it's up to employers as well to provide them proper ways, transport. I think you know the in in in hospitality. Even though you have people that are living sometimes very locally, they would actually choose to just stay on the property. We provide accommodation, we provide lodging, and very quality accommodation as well for the staff to stay there and feel comfortable, and you know then be fresh for maybe a shift the next morning or a shift in the next afternoon. So you know those things actually you know have to be you know pushed out and said as well because sometimes people you know don't really understand that you know you don't have to at two in the morning you know from Kandalama find a way back to Anuradhapura or something. No, you don't have you know.

Speaker 1  22:41
If you could, you know, coming from all of this, stemming from this entire conversation we've had, if you could push for a reform tomorrow, if you were to ask, choose one, what would it be in terms of your industry and all of these, you know, things that you've encountered so far? Oh my

Speaker 2  22:56
God! There's a. Did I

Speaker 1  22:58
open the Pandora's box? Yeah,

Speaker 3  22:59
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2  23:00
The whole manifesto will come out now, but no, honestly, there's, there's. I think, I think the one reform that I wanted has really come come through because I think that one was extremely vital. There's quite a lot of reform. I think one thing also is I would say make it a little easier for us to, especially those that want to do things by the book of actually, you know, starting businesses of having key things to operate a hotel like a bar licence and things like that at, you know, affordable prices or economically prices that make economic sense, and you know, make things a little easier for investment and you know for things like that because sometimes it can be a bit tough. I mean, there is a need for protection. There is a need for sustainability, but and we always advocate for that. But sometimes you know there you need to make it also a little bit easier to do business.

Speaker 1  23:57
Right. Also, I'd like to touch on the tourism industry as a whole. I mean, we have incredible natural assets in Sri Lanka, and also we have numerous cultural assets in the country. But there's a lot of conversation in terms of how Sri Lanka is still an underperforming tourism destination. What do you think is holding Sri Lanka back.

Speaker 2  24:22
I think holding Sri Lanka back is there's a few cup. There's a couple of things. I think one thing is we are definitely not marketing ourselves as a country. I think that's something that's done. We're not controlling the narrative of what is out there.

Speaker 1  24:38
Right.

Speaker 2  24:38
Yes, there is incredible, you know, influencers and bloggers and YouTubers making videos, but you know, they're not. We're not really controlling that narrative of what we want to show and you know what Sri Lanka is good for. And also, I mean, you need to actually attract the higher paying tourists to Sri Lanka as well, which is something. That's quite that's quite vital, but I think other than that, there is, you know, there is definitely a need for a little bit more infrastructure and hotels and things like that. But I think you know what we see like the biggest growth right now is on that informal sector that you have, or even backpacking and all of that, that sector is growing quite high, quite well. But you know, I think there just needs to be a little bit more of a concrete plan. How do we get to 3 million? How do we get to 4 million? How do we get to 5 million? Because in tourism, you can't just ignore and say, okay, from tomorrow there's no more backpackers or lower lower end tourists. You can't say there's no more middle end. You can't say we're just going to do high end, because you need to really understand that infrastructure in the countries, or is you know each country has to have all three of those of those segments. But I think for us, it's just definitely attracting more and more of that of the higher paying tourists. But so that we don't just touch on numbers, but look at more revenue.

Speaker 1  26:03
Right.

Speaker 2  26:03
But also in a way marketing it so that you know, for example, you take a hotel in the south coast of Sri Lanka, they are only making money really from November to April.

Speaker 1  26:14
Okay.

Speaker 2  26:16
It's because of seasonality, yeah. Yeah. But also, you know, there are different ways of marketing it, different markets you can approach for the off seasons and things like that. So it's not you know it's it's a very complex thing. I mean the the natural growth of tourism in Sri Lanka will be there, but it's that sustainable growth. Whether you know we also make sure that you know our natural assets, like you say, can handle you know what, what the the numbers of tourists. A lot of people say Yala is too crowded, but what are we doing to push any other park which is

Speaker 1  26:50
not Yala? You know,

Speaker 2  26:51
so

Speaker 1  26:53
what do you think the luxury traveller is actually looking for, and where do you think we are falling short the most in kind of getting to them, getting through to them.

Speaker 2  27:02
I think it really depends, right? So, like luxury travel is a big, big, big market, but also you know you have different countries that all do luxury travel. I think exclusivity is usually something that people exclusivity and privacy is something that people look for. For that, we need to actually just actually just ask ourselves a little bit: Can we compete with the Maldives in terms of exclusivity and privacy? No, I don't think we can. But what do we offer? We offer wildlife. We offer culture. We offer you know different different types of segments and you know things like that, and for those things, we can definitely work on actually providing more you know exclusive style of experiences, and I think you know I mean the we don't probably will not attract that traditional luxury traveller that just wants to you know go and eat out at you know five star restaurants or just stay on a private pool-what you call a floating, floating, floating suite on top of the sea-you can't do that in Sri Lanka. So we have to really understand and define what type of traveller we are looking for. Someone that's experiential, that wants to go visit things, that wants to go to temples, that wants to be with the local community, so that there is plenty of luxury travellers looking for that. So it's very important to understand that and to try and create those things and not, you know, destroy. That I mean, not over. Yeah, try and look at not, you know, killing certain places with over tourism and still keeping that exclusivity so that they are still willing to or will like to go to certain national parks and things like that.

Speaker 1  28:47
Right. So, if you were to sit with the Sri Lanka Tourism Development Authority, what would your big ask be?

Speaker 2  28:53
No, I I think you know. I mean, the problem is I think every every time they've done it, you know, putting a proper plan in place, I think there, you know, I mean, if you look at sometimes the legislation and everything that's in place, it's actually kind of somewhat solid. It's a bit complicated sometimes, but you know, one issue we have is illegal businesses at the moment. The problem is that there's no one to enforce the fact that you're running your business illegally without the proper legislations, or they turn a blind eye. But the Sri Lanka tourism does not have a way of enforcing it. So I think that is something that really needs to be

Speaker 4  29:31
done. They

Speaker 2  29:32
also have to have a little bit more of an eye for quality, and even in terms of the government as a whole, when you're planning tourism in a certain area, try and make sure it doesn't get overrun or overbuilt. I think Allah is facing those challenges now. It doesn't have the adequate, you know, I mean, garbage facilities and have probably the sewage facilities. Even water is a question there. And same, if you look at certain places, you look at an. What on earth 1015, years ago to today, it looks very different, and you also see that sometimes these places they fall out of popularity and actually have a lot, you know, struggle a little more to actually you know market themselves and put them their places up. I

Speaker 1  30:18
assume the communities might also struggle to reintegrate themselves in the same capacity they used to kind of contribute to tourism, and etc. Because you said when there's fallout, there might be that struggle. As

Speaker 2  30:28
yeah, I think so. I mean, fallout as in the reduction in tourism. Reduction in tourism. Yeah, yeah. I think you know that's a big, big, big issue as well, right? If more and more of our workforce gets into tourism, more and more of the workforce are, you know, at risk when you know certain shocks that sometimes it's our fault, sometimes you know we can't help happen. You know, so I think yeah. I mean, coming back to that previous question, I think it's just I would say looking at the long term in terms of sustainability, and also, I think the Sri Lanka tourism does need a little more power in able to actually enforce what they want to do as well.

Speaker 1  31:10
Right. So, in terms of labour shortages, I know that's something the industry is struggling with. What roles are currently the hardest to recruit for, and how is the industry navigating the labour shortage.

Speaker 2  31:22
Look, I think in terms of roles, I think there are. I think the most specialised roles, like you know, chefs and you know, in the cuisine cuisine sector, which is something that's much harder to train as well, right? Yeah. You know, I mean, we don't always rely on hotel schools for hiring. Sometimes it could be people from the communities around us, and training them to be, you know, training them to be quality waiters, and all of that is something that can be done. However, we see that even people coming out of, you know, certain institutions, you know, that sometimes the practical knowledge is not there, and I think there needs to definitely be a little bit more quality in the in the output because you know it's very. I mean, in any educational sense, it's very hard once you step out of your institution to be a totally finished product.

Speaker 1  32:15
Yeah,

Speaker 2  32:15
you still need a bit of moulding. So I think that those are things that happen, but I mean, overall, there is definitely a little bit of a shortage. But I think, in a way, there has been a lot of you know Sri Lankans that have expatriated themselves to the Middle East and other areas that are coming back. So right now is not the I would say the most critical. I would say, but when you know when tourism you know, kicks off, kicks back up in those countries, then it's going to be a little bit more of a challenge for sure.

Speaker 1  32:48
Right. So I'd like to touch on entrepreneurship as well. You know, as someone who represents the young generation, I'm going to ask you a very generic question in terms of what would you advise to someone who is thinking of kind of stepping into the hospitality industry, and also, what were some of the lessons that you learned along the way that you think would be helpful to somebody else? I

Speaker 2  33:07
think the lessons I learned is that you always have to have like a clear idea and concept of what you want to do, and also it's good to be a little different sometimes. Whether you know, whether you're, I mean, just gonna want to create like a property or an experience or something like that, it's good to actually not just, you know, see what everyone else is doing and see a little bit how you can improve on it, how you can make it a little better. I think that's something that we've always tried to, you know, see. We're always inspired by every, you know, there's so many incredible other Sri Lankan hotel hotel chains, or even independent people coming up with incredible concepts. So, you know, taking a little bit of everything, but making it truly yours, and make it a little different in an aspect, and try and you know, there are so many little markets and niches that aren't tapped, but also I guess you know believe your convictions and you know do all you can to try and make it succeed because it's not always easy. There's a lot of competition and a lot of different different things that you have to compete with within our industry.

Speaker 1  34:15
And I think I'd also like to touch on policy consistency, right? Very important for businesses to thrive in. How important do you think it is to attract investors to this industry? And so far, what does it look like? What is the what is the temperature?

Speaker 2  34:31
I think look, it's definitely. I mean, in terms of investments, it's the yeah. It's it's it's been yeah. It needs a little bit more consistency, is what I'll say. I think, you know, I think what we also I think need in the industry is just that you know long term plan with you know ideas of how to develop and where to develop, because if we are to really you know improve the numbers to Sri Lanka. You know we have the whole of the East Coast that needs a lot of development, but you know infrastructure and things like that. And you know sometimes those inconsistencies do change from government to government sometimes. And you know I think the biggest one is you know the marketing campaign. If you look at tourism, it's every every I mean everyone in power, every or every what you call it, every administration has said that they are going to carry it out, but it's not happened. You know, it's not happened. I think you know there is a time where we need you know places like the tourist board to be totally separated from government,

Speaker 1  35:41
independent, independent.

Speaker 2  35:42
You know, a company by guarantee or whatever you want to call it, a board that actually, especially like the promotion arm, that really has its mandate. You know, I mean, we all pay what we call TDL, so we fund our own activities. You know, we are paying a separate tax to all the other taxes that we are paying just to fund that, so sometimes we get frustrated in the industry when we know we are paying X amount and we don't see as much being put back. So you really need to actually, I think we really need to have a sort of you know an organisation that can stand alone and that can hopefully do the right thing for tourism, but with heavy, I would say, you know, private sector consultation and even you know government consultation. But you know, that's probably the best way to do it because what we see is that even if governments have the mandate, have the power, sometimes they are not able to implement what they are actually saying or what they actually want to say if you look at how many times it's been said the marketing campaign is launching from any administration, it's just you know it just comes out every single time. It's coming, it's coming, it's coming. Still hasn't come. It's I think last one is in 2009 or 10, right? So you know when you look at certain things like that, it it's not really based on investment,

Speaker 1  37:03
especially when the country's economy depends on tourism so much. I'd assume that this campaign is quite important. Yeah, I

Speaker 2  37:10
think you know people need to understand that the you know if they say okay our target you know we are you know we hit our target still I mean we've seen like now with the numbers that you know we've hit 2.3 or 2.4 million, but the spend has come down since from 2018. So, if we are just not really marketing our country, and you don't make it more desirable to come to Sri Lanka, that's when we can you know everyone in the industry can increase their rates a little bit, you know, prices can come up a little bit because there's a real desire to come to a country. So these are things that really, yeah, that really need a little bit of work.

Speaker 1  37:53
Earlier, you touched on the fact that you've been in the industry since 2017, almost a decade. So I think my final question to you would be: Of the many experiences you've had in the industry since then, of the many people you've met, what has really shaped your aspirations for the industry?

Speaker 2  38:12
I think it's it's a lot of different things, right? It's and what's beautiful in this industry is you're not really cornered to just you know Colombo and your office. You're working. You know your suppliers sometimes are. You know, for example, at you know at Ambayalu we've been pushing to try and get more female suppliers in, and you know we have ladies that have created their mushroom businesses now, and they're growing. And you know we've worked with ladies that are you know with a lady that does all our Nilmanil Supply, and now she's also growing her business. So I think you know I think what's inspired me is also like the resilience of the people at all walks of life, but also I mean the knowledge it's very hard to pinpoint, but you know just talking with, you know, people that have been in industry that have really shaped it, and also sometimes you know people that are just coming up with these cool young concepts, cool new concepts. I think that's also so inspiring. You know, I think the other day I was you know in one of our properties in Parsikuda, and I see these two young guys who've come with a telescope to do an experience on astronomy, and you know I just get chatting to them, and yeah, they're just you know kids from that area, and they have a passion for it, and now they're monetizing their passion as well. You know, just coming there and giving lessons in you know astronomy, talking about all the constellations and things like that, and you know, all these things are actually really, really wonderful to see. And you know, that's I think the beauty of tourism is that you know, I mean, yes, building a hotel there's a barrier, financial barrier, but getting into tourism is actually very accessible. But you have to have the passion, and you do have to learn things, language. You have

Speaker 1  40:00
to

Speaker 2  40:00
things, so that's actually what's been inspiring me actually to get on with it and you know keep doing new things because yeah you see people just from all over the country all walks of life actually being successful and doing things yeah really well and very passionately and very beautifully

Speaker 1  40:20
right thank you so much. I think we've spoken for over an hour now. Thank you very much, Maxime, for your thoughts on Sri Lanka's hospitality industry. It has been a pleasure, definitely speaking to you. And if you wish to listen to more podcasts such as this, and if you wish to see more of the work that Advocata does and also support our work, please consider becoming a Advocata Insider through a subscription. The link to the subscription can be found in the description below. Thank you very much, and see you soon.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai