Dhananath Fernando 00:03 Hello, everybody. You are joining with Advocata Studio, and today here we have Santosh Menon, who is the president of the Lanka India Business Association. Santosh, welcome to Advocata Studio. Speaker 1 00:21 Thank you so much, Daranat, for having me on Advocata Studio. Dhananath Fernando 00:25 Thank you very much. If you have interacted in some level of, I mean, India, Sri Lanka Business Association, some events, definitely you have met Santosh most likely. But he have been in Sri Lanka for the last 20 years. But Santosh, first, why don't you introduce yourself? I mean, I know you, but because I know you wear many hats, just tell us what you have been doing for the last 20 years in Sri Lanka, and what's your connection with Sri Lanka? Speaker 1 00:52 Yeah, that's a good question. You're you're right. I wear many hats. You know, it's a good thing when you're a bald guy to wear different hats. So yeah, I think my bread and butter is through an advertising company. We do we make ads, and we are a brand advertising agency. Created different brands in Sri Lanka. My purpose here is not to talk about that, but to talk about the other things. So we'll get into that. I also am the president of Lanka India Business Association. Broadly, the intent behind Lanka India Business Association is to take Sri Lankan businesses and help them exploit the Indian economic opportunity. You use Dhananath Fernando 01:28 the word exploit the Indian opportunity exactly, exactly. Speaker 1 01:32 And I and like I said earlier, I I don't like to use the word integrate because I know the word integrate has many not many positive connotations. Exploit is a better word because then you get a sense that you are doing something clever to, you know, to to to to make use of what's the opportunity that that exists. I also am in the Sri Lanka India Media Friendship Association in the board. Recently, we did something called the Media Fest, where we called a lot of Indian journalists and to create closer relationships between Sri Lankan journalists and Indian journalists, so yeah, and I'm part of many associations which are associated with the Sri Lanka India relationship. Part of the Indian CEO Forum, part of Sri Lanka India Society. So I, besides my advertising business which I run, I am very focused on trying to make Sri Lanka and India get closer together and become you know even more closer than they are today. Dhananath Fernando 02:25 Excellent. So as as as you know, Santoosh, as Advocata, we stand for global trade, and we have also strongly advocated for. We I use the word integration, like basically the to connect with the Indian economy because it's it's no brainer. I mean, it's obvious that India is going to become another major economic. It's already a major economic powerhouse, and it's just next door. So there are a lot of areas that we could integrate together. Santosh just want to understand when it comes to Lanka India Business Association. What like how how someone who is watching this how they can like the first question maybe like okay I would like to expand to the Indian market already there are some companies who are exploring to the Indian market how can they get your assistance or like how how how they should connect with you, or like what options that you have to connect with the Indian market or explore the Indian market. Speaker 1 03:26 Absolutely. So, you know, since I've been here 20 years, I talk to a lot of Sri Lankan businessmen who are my friends, and very often I hear from them that we can't understand where to even start with India. Dhananath Fernando 03:40 Yeah, Speaker 1 03:41 such a large country. Where do you even start? Second thing they ask is, who will help us do this? Third thing they also say, Santosh, you Indians are too competitive. I don't think we can actually manage to successfully run a business in India. Then the fourth thing they say is, you know, we've had we've had experiences of Sri Lankan companies going to India, and the experience has not been good. That is one of the key reasons we started Slanka India Business Association. In the way we see, I see India. Okay, I see India as 36 different economies. Dhananath Fernando 04:17 Okay, Speaker 1 04:18 and each economy has huge potential for Sri Lanka, Dhananath Fernando 04:22 right? Speaker 1 04:23 So that is the large, bigger picture. Dhananath Fernando 04:26 36 means based based on the states, right? Exactly, Speaker 1 04:28 28 states and eight union provinces, union territories makes it 36. So 36 different economic opportunities for Sri Lanka, Dhananath Fernando 04:40 right. Speaker 1 04:41 And what we have as an offering from Liba is, if you become a member of Lanka India Business Association, then we give you access to our business advisors who sit in Mumbai, Dhananath Fernando 04:54 right. Speaker 1 04:56 Based on your product, based on your service, based on your ambition, based. Based on your intent, the advisors will tell you who is the partner you should go with, or should you set up something on your own? Which is the state you should target? Dhananath Fernando 05:10 Right. Speaker 1 05:10 Where is your product and service likely to win? And then, of course, this whole process of setting up a company, the legal, you know, navigating the legal system within India, setting up-if not setting up-even if you're doing a partnership, helping you find the right partner. So this entire feeling that India is a black box, and we don't have a clue how to navigate it. Lanka India Business Association wants to change that. Dhananath Fernando 05:40 Okay. Speaker 1 05:41 Equally, let me add, when an Indian business wants to come to Sri Lanka, I have a very strong governing council. We are easily able to help Indian companies come to Sri Lanka as well. So it's a it's a two way thing. Dhananath Fernando 05:52 Absolutely, trade is always a two way street. Speaker 1 05:54 Exactly, and it is a two way thing. The only reason I mentioned the first element first is because I do think there are many, many good Sri Lankan products, high quality products. If we are able to take it to India, I have a feeling if the businessman is resilient enough and finds the right partner, does the right targeting, goes to the right market, I think Sri Lankan businesses can do extremely well in India. Dhananath Fernando 06:17 No, thank you very much. I think that's that's a powerful insight because I have heard that when you said like those four things, like okay, there there was a bad experience or we don't know how we are to start and you know it's so big. Those are the common common things that we just at the same time every if you go to every business forum, every politician talk. We also speak about we need to diversify our exports. We have to increase our exports. We need the market access. But everyone talks about the market access. But when it comes to actioning and when we are capitalising on the available resources, I think we can do a bit more. Santosh, now answering on your third and the fourth point, like to explore a bit more. Already there are certain Sri Lankan companies who are actually doing remarkably well. Yes, partnering with India. At the same time, there are Indian companies who are doing well in Sri Lanka. Why do you? Since you have been in 20 years in Sri Lanka, especially advertising is something that you connect with. Also, not with like you know, not it's not all about goods and services. It's also you manage with culture. You need to understand the people' sentiment, how they think, all that. What is like India is also bordering with Nepal and many other countries. Why do you think Sri Lanka? I mean, can capitalise over the others, or like, is it like an equal chance? How do you how do you see the uniqueness of Sri Lanka connecting to the Indian market? Speaker 1 07:49 Sri Lanka is the only country with unique geographical access to five southern states, Dhananath Fernando 07:57 right? Speaker 1 07:58 Which actually has a middle class. I'm not talking population. Middle class, and the middle class are the ones with huge purchasing power, of 125 million people. Dhananath Fernando 08:09 Right. Speaker 1 08:10 These 125 people. Dhananath Fernando 08:11 That's only the middle class you're referring. Speaker 1 08:13 Only the middle class. Only the middle class. Obviously, population wise, it's 350 million, and that economy, the five southern economies are going to be 1.5 trillion US dollar economies. I mean, as a combined set, they are the ones growing at a tremendous pace, while the rest of India is growing at 345, percent. The reason why India's overall growth rate goes up, is because the southern states are actually pulling the weight. They're at 1011, 12% Dhananath Fernando 08:47 1011, 12% Speaker 1 08:49 You know, from Mumbai to Kochin, it's 2500 kilometres. From Kochin to Colombo, is 600 kilometres. I mean, so you know, recently there's a Japanese research agency called Nomura who approached me and said we want to meet for coffee. And I said, "It's Lanka India Business Association. I have nothing to do with Japan. They said, "No, no, no. We've seen your website. We know what you're doing. We want to meet you. So I met them. So they said, "So I said, how can I help you, sir? So they said, you know, we think that India is a massive opportunity and southern India is a massive opportunity. We want to invest in promoting India-Sri Lanka trade. So I said, why? What? What's in it for the Japanese? They said, as far as we are concerned, we would like to be based in Sri Lanka to have access to the southern Indian market, but for the access to happen, India and Sri Lanka must have a robust trade relationship. Currently, that relationship is not as robust as it as it could be, but we want to work towards making that happen so that we can base our services and our businesses in Sri Lanka to have easy access to to. India. I found that very interesting because here was a Japanese research agency with a vision for the world in terms of how the economies are growing, and he told me, you know, India has already overtaken Japan this year, so we see India as a huge opportunity, and being in Sri Lanka, we think we can use some of the Sri Lankan resources to access the Indian market and do well in the Indian market. So, just to give you a context and what you just asked me, Dhananath Fernando 10:28 absolutely. So, Speaker 1 10:29 as as a neighbour in the south, Sri Lanka has unique access to the most rocking market markets in India. Dhananath Fernando 10:40 Absolutely, I think that means like even if you meet for a coffee, it's more convenient to meet in Colombo than meeting for coffee in Mumbai. Speaker 1 10:47 Oh, definitely, and the cafes are better too. Dhananath Fernando 10:51 Okay, now let's go to the specifics, Santosh. Now, when it comes to boosting trade between India and Sri Lanka, there has been a free trade agreement, and there has been ECTA that has been in conversation. While every president, prime minister gives priority to go to India, and while we speak about these importance of trade integration, or in your words, like Sri Lankan businesses, the opportunity to get exploit the Indian market. Why do you think, as a layman's point of view, being someone who had done businesses, meeting all business leaders, doing advertising, meeting media agencies for the last 20 years, why it is, why it is not up to as we expect? This is a question that we also internally discuss. Why? I mean, by being slow, I mean, being so close proximity with culture, like Buddhism coming from India and Sri Lankans visiting India for pilgrimages, most number of tourists for a long time is from India with having our connectivity. Why the trade is so slow to move? Speaker 1 11:59 I think there are a couple of reasons. One is the way Sri Lankans have generally looked at India in the past. I mean, see, fact of the matter is that I I just did the statistical analysis, 1719 79 to 1983, Dhananath Fernando 12:20 1719 7919, 7919, 80. That's after I mean after the open economy. When you when Sri Lanka Speaker 1 12:28 liberalised, you had FDI of close to 250 million Dhananath Fernando 12:33 for that four to five years. Speaker 1 12:35 India, which is 100 times larger, had an FDI of Only 300 million, Dhananath Fernando 12:41 right? Speaker 1 12:42 Okay. In the last five years, 2020 to 2025, Sri Lanka had FDI of 4 billion. India had an FDI of 200 billion. Dhananath Fernando 12:53 Right. The Speaker 1 12:56 India of the 1970s and the 80s is not the India of the 2020s. I still think, while I think in forums everyone talks about it, people really here haven't still understood that the money game is moving from what is what used to be the West, where all the money was, to the East, and India is one of the countries where people have money. People have money. People want to spend. If there's a good product and service, people are willing to pay premiums. In the past, when we looked at our garment industry or looked at any export industry, I mean, currently also, if you look at the overall export basket of Sri Lanka, 70% of the exports are to the U.S. and and to the EU, whereas in reality, if you look at many of the Western countries recently, U.K. pushed hard for an FTA with India. Dhananath Fernando 13:51 Yeah, Speaker 1 13:52 EU is having a conversation about doing an FTA. It's at the edge Dhananath Fernando 13:55 of inking the agreement. Speaker 1 13:58 So the places where the money is or money used to be, is looking at India and realising that this is where the population with the wealth is, and we need to actually have great trade relations with them. Whereas somehow in Sri Lanka, there hasn't been sufficient groundswell for it to become a imperative, irreversible imperative. I use those words because, at the end of the day, for me, you can't do politics with economics. If you ask me, you have to prioritise the economy, and you have to make sure that you state it upfront what the vision is, and you have to absolutely understand that India is an opportunity, and you have to go after that to exploit that opportunity, because otherwise you will end up with many other people exploiting the opportunity before you do, and you know, you you may not, you may then feel like that you miss the bus. I don't know if I've answered your question. Dhananath Fernando 14:59 You have answered. Because this is, I mean, the while I mean, I think I'm not sure whether what is it. I'm also, it's finding it difficult to understand. It may be the the sometimes you have to do a lot of unlearning to learn new things. So you have a backlog of things that you learnt before, yes, which you are finding it difficult to see the new perspectives and the new changes that the world has moved. Yes. So that may be one reason, but I think we perceive India positively depending on the context. Like especially if it's a cricket match between Sri Lanka and India, then the the it's it's a two different. But if it's a match between India and Australia, most likely we will support India. So, however, when it comes to the trade connectivity, there are a few areas that everyone has been discussing on connecting, and even at one point we were also trying to explore on research expertise on this connectivity issue. One is the land bridge. There was a conversation about also on the healthcare connection. In fact, the the Apollo Hospital was operating in India. A lot of Indian doctors were actually practising in Sri Lanka, and I think still a lot of Sri Lankans go to India for healthcare needs. And there was an energy grid connectivity, which pretty much all political parties have agreed that we have to have some grid connectivity. How it happens is a conversation. So on these connectivity, as a businessman, as an advertiser, how do you see this? I mean, if you were to advise, how do you recommend to take this connectivity approach? Is it? It should start from I mean with the bridge or with the grid or with health or with its culture how do you how do you see Speaker 1 16:51 fact of the matter is when you're going to when you have a large economy of India size in your neighbourhood and that opportunity exists all connectivity is important and I do think, to be fair, there is a lot of conversation India is having with Sri Lanka, and in Sri Lanka is having with India across all parameters. There are significant cultural engagements. Sri Lankans going to Bodh Gaya, relics coming from India to Sri Lanka. Several engagements are happening at multifarious levels. Whether it is defence, whether it is culture, whether it's your it's the digital ambition that Sri Lanka has. I think there is a fair amount of conversations that are happening together on the energy front too. I believe there are conversations going on. I think recently one of the companies which was wanting to do energy, you know that project got stopped. But at the end of the day, I think the conversations continue. However, in my view, and I'm going to state this up front, somehow the economic conversation has not happened the way it should. And I'm saying this because if you really look at the last 10 years. Broadly, it's been $5 billion of trade, of which you know for 4.2 billion is from India to Sri Lanka, and 800 million is from Sri Lanka to India. But other than it going down due to the pandemic, when it went down to 3.5 million billion, and then after the pandemic, it's kind of come back to your original five 5 billion number. If you look at the overall trade numbers in the last 10 years, there's been a 1.5% growth in trade. I I can't get my head around the fact that we aren't able to Dhananath Fernando 18:34 trade more with each other with each other because Speaker 1 18:37 your opportunities are great. And I I also do think there are many Sri Lankans who talk about barriers within the Indian system, and possibly there could be. I have never exported anything to India from Sri Lanka, so. But I do believe that there are some. Having said that, very often when you challenge the export guys to say what are the barriers, they're not able to name too many. But the point is, at the end of the day, there is an opportunity there. I think you need to set very ambitious targets for trade. You need to set very ambitious targets for investments. Even if you look at the investments, actually, in the last 10 years, Indians have invested close to $200 billion globally. Dhananath Fernando 19:19 Right. Speaker 1 19:20 And if you look at the Indian investment in Sri Lanka, it's one one and a half billion dollars. Dhananath Fernando 19:25 Right. Speaker 1 19:26 Many lot of the investment that Indians are making globally is to countries like Singapore, UAE, a little bit of Mauritius. I believe they do investments in even in the UK, but Sri Lanka has not Dhananath Fernando 19:40 in the list Speaker 1 19:40 has not got that much investment. Of course, when you look at it, you will say, "Yeah, there is a petroleum investment. There is some companies here and there. There's some people in hospitality. Recently, there was a big hospitality brand which came into Sri Lanka. But I think you need to set higher targets and bigger targets. If you really believe, if we really believe that the economic relationship between India and Sri Lanka are going to be mutually beneficial, then from both sides, we need to set higher targets. Dhananath Fernando 20:11 So, Santosh, let's come to the hard facts. When it comes to why it is slow, do you mainly perceive it as because of the politics that is taking over, or is it? You also mentioned there are perception challenges. How Sri Lankans probably perceive they don't really see the new India that has. I mean, which has which is a which is no longer the same India which was 2030 years ago. Yes. Do you think it's a combination of issues, or do you think it's because of the politics that there's a narrative being created to slow down the trade integration with India? Or I don't want for you to point fingers or anything, but what is the what is what is slowing it down? Speaker 1 21:01 No, I think, I think it's a combination of things. Definitely, there is a baggage in Sri Lanka about India, and there is a perception that India is, you know, in the past not behaved as it should have. I mean, these are all conversations. Right or wrong is a separate conversation. Also, you know, there is a there has been a perception in the past that Indian products are not high quality. So somehow the feeling that you know, if you need to look for quality in certain things, you need to go to the West. Whereas in reality today, you know, a company like Maruti is actually creating a particular product in India, which is going to be exported to the Japanese market and fulfils Japanese specifications. Dhananath Fernando 21:49 I think that was. I mean, if you look at even Japan before they. I mean, they stood for. I mean, high quality electronics vehicles, but before that, everyone said, okay, Japan's products were not in good quality. I think same for Korean products. Earlier, when Japan was like the gold standard for quality, people said, "Okay, these are Korean products or Taiwanese product. And then now South Korea is also picking up everyone. You know, even the vehicle market. I think that chapter is coming to India. Okay, Indian products. There were. I mean, people really did not have the trust factor, and now I think it's picking up. I think the example that you brought in, like Suzuki is exporting to Japan itself, is a is an indication, and also why isn't it that like the trade agreements that you have signed with the UK and what is planning to sign with the EU also an indication that their markets are more open to embrace Indian products, and especially when you export to EU, it has to you know it it has to go beyond a certain product kind of quality specification. Speaker 1 22:57 I I have hope that the young Sri Lankan who's probably born after the 2000s, early 2000, will be more open and have an understanding that India is an opportunity worth exploiting, and that you need to go after that opportunity in whatever way. I always say this: sign itka. Obviously, you're you're going to negotiate in a manner that doesn't that doesn't harm Sri Lanka. You got to ensure that most of the ownership remains with Sri Lankans, and even if it is with with a foreign country, then you have to make sure that it's done in such a way that it doesn't hamper in strategic areas. So these are all conversations that the political leadership and the decisions makers need to have. You can't allow unimpeded access to people. Those are things Sri Lanka should be careful about. But fundamentally, you have to move forward, and it's taken so long. And I'm not saying this is happening because of the Sri Lankan side, I know, you know, being an Indian, I also know, you know, we always like to show ourselves as master negotiators. Somebody told me a story once, and I shan't tell you who, but about when Sri Lankans went and asked for more access to airports, somebody at the Indian side said, "But you are given only one airport access to her. How can we give you more? So you know there is that part of the thing also where we as Indians also tend to be in negotiating mode, and I don't think India should look at Sri Lanka and say, oh, we are going to negotiate hard with Sri Lanka. So for me, it's both ways. But at the end of the day, I think the country, both countries, have to move forward together, and make sure that whatever we do is to the mutual interests of both countries. The opportunity is there. It's just a question of how you're going to navigate and the the intent and the ambition. I use these two words. You know, I gave you the statistic of 779 to 83 and. 2020 to 2025. I think the fundamental difference today in India is that, irrespective of which political party you're from in whichever state, everyone's convinced that the economy is non-negotiable and growth in the economy is non-negotiable. There is nobody who's having a different view on that? Yeah, and I think yesterday, Indian diplomat used a very interesting word which I picked up: competitive federalism, saying that every state in India, when there is a foreign direct investor, they come and present their own competences, and say, why don't you each state? Why don't you come to my state? I'm going to give you free taxes. You come to my state, I'll give you this free. So everyone's competing within India as a competitive federal process to get the get the FDI, which means there is an intent and there is an ambition. Then the numbers start showing itself. You you know what I'm saying? I Dhananath Fernando 26:03 understand. I understand. Now which is which is which is very true. Also, Santosh want to understand now. Can we highlight success stories as well? Those who have successfully explored the Indian market. Maybe your clients, because I saw recently John Keels exploring with reliance on their seed on coal store brands, and I saw. In fact, we interviewed the good Gift City Director General, and I think some of the Sri Lankan banks are considering to invest there. So likewise, while while there are different perceptions, or there's a the backpack that many Sri Lankans carry; those stories sometimes do not come to the limelight. So as a result, we really do not know how successfully the Sri Lankan Za also, in your words, exploited the Indian market, and even Sri Lankan apparel manufacturing giants are also present in India. Do you want to share some positive story? You know Speaker 1 27:02 there is Damro. I think Damro is an amazing case study in the sense that wherever you go in India, you see Damro. Dhananath Fernando 27:10 Okay. Speaker 1 27:10 Yeah. Recently, one of my governing council members went to Trichy, Dhananath Fernando 27:14 right, Speaker 1 27:14 and saw Damros shop in Trichy, which is actually not one of the biggest cities in India. Dhananath Fernando 27:19 Right. Speaker 1 27:20 You know, so you have a Sri Lankan brand like Damro, which is in a lot of places in India. Avirate of MAS, they've sold it again to Reliance, and Reliance is selling their brand in India. That's another success story. From what I understand, they're doing well. John Keels, as you just mentioned, but they're early days. Dhananath Fernando 27:43 They're still early. Speaker 1 27:44 You know, some of these cases, some of these stories are still early days. Things are starting to happen slowly but surely. Sri Lankan corporates are actually finding Indian partners and trying to look for Indian partners. See, see, at the end of the day, I do think there's a difference between the political establishment and the business establishment, business people generally tend to look for opportunities. Dhananath Fernando 28:05 Yeah, Speaker 1 28:06 and so I think if you go to a business people and person and say, "Oh, India is an opportunity, I don't think they have a they'll have a debate on it. Dhananath Fernando 28:12 Absolutely, they want to make more profits and to service more people. Exactly, they have more Speaker 1 28:18 ambition to go beyond the 25 million population of Sri Lanka to take their expertise globally and to make sure that, and if you ask me, India is in that way economically at least like a Europe, because if you take India as one economic entity, it's too difficult for you to choose that entity. Many Indian companies consider India to be 36 economic units, and they say even if we are able to conquer five economic units with a big market share, we'll be laughing all the way to the bank. So the point I'm making is the business community it will be preaching to the converted, but at the policy level, at the at the you know FTA level, ICA level is where I think the doors need to get opened a little bit more. The garment industry here, when this tariff situation occurred, they were wondering where are we going to go, and I think UK, I think has done a great job by saying that, you know, you can have access to the UK market. I have actually mooted in one of the articles that India too should give access because, in reality, India is $100 billion garment industry. I mean, even if the entire Sri Lankan 3 billion garment industry comes into India, it's 3% So, what are we talking about? You know, I don't think India can be hurt by any of the Sri Lankan companies, based on the capacity, irrespective of whether it is tea, whether it is garments, whether it is you know cinnamon, whether it's pepper, all the things that Sri Lanka exports, if the entire capacity goes into India, India won't even feel the pinch. So, conceptually, it sounds controversial and a little naive also. My view is there should be zero tariffs to go into India, you know, at a policy level. And similarly, when you come back, when you when Indian products come into India, of course you you can't expect a reciprocal. Speaker 2 30:11 Yeah, Speaker 1 30:12 but there needs to be there needs to be that kind of that kind of intent, you know, in the conversations. Dhananath Fernando 30:17 Absolutely, I think one one other myth that we have to bust is that already there is the free trade sort of agreement with India and Sri Lanka. And if you look at okay, a lot of Sri Lankans think okay, we import more from India and we export less to India. But even if you look at the statistics on the free trade agreement, Speaker 3 30:35 yes, Dhananath Fernando 30:36 which is the goods and services mainly the goods, which is under free trade agreement, we are actually exporting more to India under the free trade agreement than what we are importing from India. And what is imported outside of the free trade agreement is anyway open for competition from other countries as well, because free trade agreement is like that you know that channel that you trade between the countries with a preferential tariff rate or different tariff rates based on the HS code, so that is something also Sri Lankans need to understand. It is the other way around. Actually, it should work. But of course, trade is a two-way street. You cannot say, okay, we only export to you; you don't export anything to us. It is not how the trade works. It's always a two-way street. But it's important that we understand with this free trade agreement. Actually, we are at the moment exporting more to India, and we are importing less from India. Yeah, Speaker 1 31:30 and I'll give a same. I'll just answer your question or your point that you made. I want to endorse it in a very you know in a different way. There's a $5 billion trade, out of which $4.2 billion are imported by Sri Lanka into from India into Sri Lanka. What are you importing? You are importing things like medicine, garment industry, raw materials, fuel, sometimes even you know food and materials when you are in dire need. Why are you doing it? Because you don't have enough of it in Sri Lanka. Why India? Because when you go to the market and you look for the competitive prices and the best quality, India gives you value for money. It's out there in the market. It could have been any other country which imported that from from. But then it's it's Sri Lanka's need, based on which you're doing these importations, and none of these things are listed in the FTA for from an Indian perspective. So it's not that India is using the FTA to bring its products in. What happens with Sri Lanka? 60% of the FTA is being used by Sri Lankan companies, and only 5% of the FTA is being used by the Indian companies. Dhananath Fernando 32:39 Right. Come up again with this review. 60 and five. Dhananath Fernando 32:43 Right. So 60% of Sri Lankan companies are using the FTA, but only 5% of Indian companies are using the FTA. Yeah. Okay. So that that is why the what you see there is. But it's important to understand that again. I think I I endorse your point as well. We are importing from India not because of because of the friendship, it is because that's the reasonable product in terms of price, quality, exactly, and accessibility, and cost-wise, and also the the time frame. Because you know, if you try to import it from a faraway country, it takes like you know weeks or months to be priced higher as well. Absolutely, so of course the price. So that that's interesting. Also, Santosh, now let's also come to. There was few conversations that is always becoming like a hotbed when we speak about Sri Lanka India trade. One is this ECTA, one which you endorse, which we also endorse. Like we should go for a comprehensive trade agreement. That's one. The other one is the oil trade, oil pipeline. There was a conversation. There's a conversation about the String Kumali oil tanks, and I think the land bridge. There was a ferry service. I'm not sure if actually it's operating. Speaker 1 33:55 It doesn't work in the monsoon. I'm told. Okay, Dhananath Fernando 33:57 so on these three issues, how do you see the land connectivity, the energy connectivity, and the electricity connectivity? What could have been done better if we because. Transcribed by https://otter.ai