Dhananath Fernando  00:12
Hello, hello! Welcome to Advocata Studio. As you know, we have been speaking about economic issues, economic growth, and reforms, and in this entire conversation, anti-corruption has been a key word, especially since Aragalaya in 2022. People are in the view that one reason for the economic downturn is the corruption that took place in Sri Lanka, and there has been important developments since then, and one is in 2025. We have enacted the proceeds of crime bill, and here with us today is Netmi Jinadasa, senior programmes officer from Transparency International. Netmi, welcome to Advocata Studio, and thank you very much for joining us.

Speaker 1  01:02
Thank you so much for having me.

Dhananath Fernando  01:04
Let me just to start the conversation. What is your evaluation on the scale and the nature of economic corruption, especially as Transparency International, as an organisation who have been voicing out and even the main voice on this anti-corruption drive, what is your perception on the economic corruption that has been evolving over the years? Just to kick off the conversation, right? So yes, so in the recent past, we have seen, and it was evident from the country context as well, that the scale and the nature of the economic corruption has increased. It was, like I said, evident from the economic crisis which happened in 2022, and so with with the full depletion of the foreign reserves and country coming to a standstill and defaulting on our debt, it was a massive crisis

Speaker 1  02:00
that we that Sri Lanka did not see previously since independence, I would suppose, and that was not something happened overnight. That was that was something that happened as a result of an array of issues. So from from what we see from TISL's perspective, what we see is that this economic crisis it did not happen just because of economic corruption or economic mismanagement or anything of that sort. Certainly, it contributed, but it was more than that. From what we see, it was mostly governance-related issues with which are deep-rooted in the society, corruption issues that are deep-rooted in the society. So it was a mix of the corrupt economic issues and also governance issues that have led to that led to this economic crisis in the country. So the answer to your question is yes. We have the scale of the economic corruption corruption in the country has certainly evolved, but at present I I think we can see that certain reforms have been introduced, we we can see slow but a certain growth, a certain improvement in terms of coming us coming out of this economic crisis.

Dhananath Fernando  03:11
Netmi, now on common man's point of view, either I mean the relation to this corruption is okay. I have to pay as taxes for all corruption that has been taken place, or they are they are basically taking away our tax money is one main connection that the people make. But that's the people's perception about the issue. But when we listen to anti-corruption experts like you, there was a common term called procurement. Every time it says, okay, mainly this corruption takes place in procurement. While people perceive it as, or their imagination is someone slowly coming at night and go to the treasury and taking a you know a bag of money and leaving to some other country and going to the deposit counter and deposit the money is how they imagine it, but when we listen to it, and when you listen to judgments, it's all about procurement, procurement or investment, something like that. Can you can you explain this how it affects the common man and actually the complexity of these corruption cases and also on this procurement business. How does it happen at procurement, and why it affects the common man?

Speaker 1  04:28
Right, surely. So I will explain this through an example, which is very known to us, which is the importation of the human immunoglobulin drug, along with other medical supplies, which came to be known that they were substandard, they were of low quality, and they were they have been procured through companies which have not been registered at the NMRA, the National Medicine Regulatory Authority in the country. So, like I said, these these drugs, these medical supplies. Were procured through the procurement process which you talk about by deviating from the due process. So there's a certain process, procurement process, which the government needs to follow because these authorities, the government institutions, are using the using public funds to procure these medical supplies. Not only medical supplies, but any other supplies that are beneficial, that are that are basic needs for the public. So what happened in this case is this procurement was done by deviating from the due process by the then cabinet and the then health authorities, sort of bypassing and misusing their discretion and authorising these substandard low quality drugs to be imported, which impacted on the public public health in so many ways, to the extent that people died. So true enough that this caused a greater loss to the economy financially, but it also caused greater repercussions to the public health as well. So it was through cases like this, especially this case, how people understood, people got a feel of how these high high level authorities making decisions can actually impact directly impact their lives. So true enough, like you said, the word procurement-it's all very technical jargon which common man cannot really understand. But this is how these big words can actually impact you, impact our lives. So the Aragala, the people uprising in 2022, there also people actually spoke about the slogan was bring our money back, referring to this, referring to the tax money they pay and this money being misused and abused. So this is how it it can be get abused and misused, deviating from the due procurement processes and not following the proper protocol in terms of getting authorizations to import certain things, medical supplies or any other supplies for that matter. So things like that is how these these corrupt activities, these corrupt activities, can actually not only impact the economy, but also the public lives.

Dhananath Fernando  07:22
Got it. Now, on this entire world of anti-corruption conversation, there's there's a new bill in 2025, which government introduced called the Proceeds of Crime Bill.

Speaker 1  07:38
Yes, it's now passed, so it's the proceeds of crime

Dhananath Fernando  07:41
act.

Speaker 1  07:41
Correct.

Dhananath Fernando  07:42
So what is actually what is it for common man, and can you give some details about it, and why it is important for common person, and what they should know about it?

Speaker 1  07:59
Right. So the proceeds of Crime Act now, which was passed last month by the Parliament, it's essentially it's to recover stolen assets. It's to recover proceeds. It's to recover wealth that have been derived out of an unlawful activity which was committed. Right. So that's essentially it. But this is a very comprehensive law, and Sri Lanka has actually, I mean, we have under current laws, we have used these laws to sort of seize and confiscate property, but there was no comprehensive law on asset recovery. There was no stringent procedure laid down with authorities being mandated to carry out these exercises, there was nothing of that sort until this act came into place. So this was the conversation around asset recovery. This process of crime law was act. It all happened back in 2018, I suppose. That's where that's when the conversation started, and there was in fact an international forum called the GFA, Global Forum on Asset Recovery, where there was it was a conference hosted by the UK-US governments along with the World Bank and the UNODC, and they invited four countries, including Sri Lanka, to discuss asset recovery cases. And Sri Lanka discussed 43 asset recovery cases there, so that's when the conversation started, and that was because we didn't have a comprehensive law to tackle with these issues in house in our country. Right. So that's when the conversation started, and throughout the years, a special task force was established to draft a framework for this. That was somehow it didn't actually come into light though, and again in 2022 the the then Minister of Justice established a drafting committee to sit and actually draft a proper comprehensive law on asset recovery. Sorry, and this Prices of Crime Act that we see now today is the. Of it, so this process started in 2022, and now we see the Proceeds of Crime Act, and it just passed, like I said, last month. So we will have to give some time to see how the implementation works, but I will delve into certain key features of it. And this

Dhananath Fernando  10:16
asset recovery covers. We'll go to the details of the bill. So this means that I mean, on common man's language, they said, okay, some money being you know parked in Dubai or some money in Uganda or wherever. So can that be brought back through this new act? What are the strengths and weaknesses of this act?

Speaker 1  10:40
Yes, surely. So first, I'll get into the strengths of this act. So, like I said earlier, also the law itself, this comprehensive law itself, is a strength, is as what I see, right? Because we didn't have such a law, and now this being passed is a huge win for the country, and also so delving into the provisions of the law, so it establishes a new unit called the PCID, Procedures of Crime Investigation Division, within the police. It's a unit under the police. So, this PCID and, on the other hand, the CIBAC, the Bribery Commission, are the two main authorities who will be exercising, basically giving, basically enforcing this law, so there will be investigation officers. There will be designated officers in both these units, and they are the ones who will be carrying out the investigations investigation process. So, and in addition to that, there is a new unit called the PCMA, the Proceeds of Crime Management Authority. Sole mandate of this PCMA is to protect, preserve, and manage the property that was recovered, the proceeds of crime that were recovered. Right. So earlier on, like I said, there were investigations done and cases done, and property confiscated, which was suspected to be proceeds of crime under other laws, but these property are just parked somewhere else. Like you can even see the if it's a car, it's parked outside a building and no one looks after it, and you can see it's all damaged. And what happens there is the value of the asset also deteriorates over the time, right? So there was due to improper management. So now with this PCMA, this authority is mandated to look after this, to preserve this property until if there's a court case going on, until the end of the court case, and then use this property or the value of the property to use to be used to compensate the victims of these crimes, so that is one very salient feature that I see, and also this also has non-conviction based forfeiture, as opposed to conviction based forfeiture. I understand this is very legal jargon. Yes, I will. What is non-conviction forfeiture and

Dhananath Fernando  12:56
conviction forfeiture? Yes. So,

Speaker 1  12:57
conviction based forfeiture, as the name suggests, is it's it's once you get a conviction, once a perpetrator is convicted in the court, saying that okay, this person is had committed a crime, committed an unlawful activity, so that's a conviction. So after that, you can go after the property, which is the proceeds of the unlawful activity he committed. So that's conviction-based forfeiture, as opposed to that non-conviction-based forfeiture, you where we go after the property, you don't need a conviction, you don't need a criminal conviction to go after the property, the proceeds of crime. So because this is very essential, because post conviction-based forfeiture, it takes long periods of time, so it's before the court, right? So the cases take such a long time, years and years, and by that time, the property would have been deteriorated. It would have been damaged. It would have even been gone to the wrong hands again. It could be re-corrupted, right? So to sort of prevent that from happening, there's another option, which is a non-conviction based forfeiture, where you can go after the property first and seize it or forfeit it, and then if there's a perpetrator identified, that person can be convicted.

Dhananath Fernando  14:10
Right, got it. And what are the weaknesses? Are there any weaknesses of this new act you you you see and in your analysis?

Speaker 1  14:20
So during when the law was at a bill stage, we actually TISL and a couple other civil society organisations also reviewed the bill. So from there, also what we saw was in certain aspects there were there was excessive wide discretion given to these investigation offices that I spoke about earlier, without very minimal or no oversight, and so that is something that's a weakness that we saw in during the bail stage, which some of which have been rectified in the act as well. And apart from that, especially in terms of this process of crime law, what we can see is. During the drafting process, it was not consultative, so there was no public consultation done during the drafting process. Like I said earlier on, it's very essential in terms of policy making in the country. It's absolutely necessary that the relevant experts and CSOs and public are consulted in this drafting policy, because after all, these laws are for the people. Governments may come and go, but the laws will stay. So it needs to not cater a specific government or a specific person. It needs to cater to the public, right? So it's imperative that the public input is also taken into consideration when drafting these laws. So which we didn't see at the early stages of this drafting process, but because from our initiative, from TSL's initiative, we actually requested the then Minister of Justice and the drafting committee to give us an opportunity to present our concerns and recommendations on this on the bill, which they very gladly welcomed. So, but that happened at a later stage in the drafting process. But had this been done earlier on, I think certain weaknesses, certain concerns that we saw later on could have been prevented or addressed. So, I think this is not sort of exclusive to precisive crime law, but this is something we see generally in Sri Lanka, how public consultation is not either welcome or it's not. They don't want to engage the public. I think they know everything

Dhananath Fernando  16:28
very much. Okay, and now on this Proceeds of Crime Act, now what what is the difference between Anti Corruption Act and this proceeds of crime act because people may confuse because you have anti-money laundering act, you have proceeds of crime act, you have anti-corruption act, you have so many things which sounds the same but it's different. And what's the difference in that case?

Speaker 1  16:58
Right. So so all these laws, like you said, the Anti-Corruption Act, the Proceeds of Crime Act, and Anti-Money Laundering Act, all these laws are within this anti-corruption landscape, right? So all of these laws complement each other. So before the Proceeds of Crime Act came into place, it was through the Anti-Money Laundering Act and the Financial Transaction Reporting Act. It was through these laws, which certain assets were, certain property were seized and confiscated, and action were taken against. Right. So, and when the Anti-Corruption Act came into place, it was through this act also in terms of bribery and corruption-related offences, action were taken in. And now the Proceeds of Crime Act comes into play again. The CROC, which is established under the Anti-Corruption Act, has a major role to play under the Proceeds of Crime Act. So they all complement each other. So even the provisions, from what we see, the Precedes of Crime Act complements very well with the Anti-Corruption Act. It even refers to the Anti-Corruption Act. So the CIABOK, I'll take this for an example. So SIABOC, like I said, which is established under the Anti-Corruption Act, has its own duties and powers and responsibilities under that Act. But now that it's also been taken into the Proceeds of Crime Act, they also have certain other responsibilities in terms of asset recovery through this law. But they, what they can do is they have to. Their mandate basically is to go after property that have that are suspected to be proceeds of crime, which have been derived out of an offence that were committed under the Anti-Corruption Act. So their mandate stays the same. It's the Anti-Corruption Mandate, whereas the PCID, the Proceeds of Crime Investigation Division, which is under the police, they have to investigate into these suspected proceeds of crime, which are not covered under the Anti-Corruption Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act.

Dhananath Fernando  18:54
Oh no! The other question that a lot of people bring to the limelight is now on with this proceeds of crime act. Does it provide to recover assets which is overseas and what is the process? Because I think I remember when I had a conversation with your colleague from TISL last time, she mentioned that okay, it takes as you now mentioned. It takes about 1015 years. So was this piece missing for us to move to that asset recovery or proceeds of crime act at the international scale, or does it support? Or what is the relevance of this act if someone is interested about money parked in Uganda or in Dubai?

Speaker 1  19:44
Yes. So there was. So it is through mutual legal assistance (MLAs) as we call it. It is through these agreements that we can actually coordinate with other countries where we suspect that our proceeds certain assets are. Right, so it's between government to government. So our government and the the destination government should ideally come to a mutual agreement to assist each other in retrieving this, recovering these assets that we suspect to be parked in another country. So mutual legal assistance actually it was it had been in place for quite some time. There had there's a law called Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, which came into enforcement in 2002, if I'm not mistaken. So through this, it provides for mutual legal assistance, and it provides for international cooperation to identify and locate proceeds of crime assets. Rather, I would not say proceeds of crime assets stolen assets which are parked elsewhere, and also to engage in joint investigations to basically to assist each other. So just

Dhananath Fernando  20:49
a quick intervention. So you mean that if we were to even to recover money, or under the proceeds of crime, this piece of legislation is required to go on a bilateral basis to take it forward to mention that okay we have this piece of legislation and we need your support to recover it sort of is it the way that it happens in a to common man's language so this is required or without this wasn't there I mean we really do not have a basis to even to approach the bilateral support is is that what you try to?

Speaker 1  21:26
There is definitely a basis for it. Like I said, this mutual assistance in criminal matters act it provides for MLS. Yes, it provides for this international cooperation that you are talking about. But the key here is there, like I said, it's between two governments, so there needs to be absolutely genuine political will to engage in these international cooperation. Even to request an assistance from another government, a foreign government, the government needs to have a genuine commitment, genuine willingness to actually engage in this, right? Because that's how international cooperation works, and without that, this asset recovery process would sort of be faced with other issues, hiccups along the way. So it's absolutely necessary that political will is there to get international cooperation for this asset recovery process. Thank

Dhananath Fernando  22:18
you. You basically explain under the proceeds of crime, the non-conviction based forfeiture and conviction based forfeiture.

Speaker 1  22:26
Yes.

Dhananath Fernando  22:27
What are the other elements that is there? So, and I think there's the victims of crime reparation trust fund, which is proposed under this law. Could you elaborate on this and also on that you mention about a separate unit, I forget the abbreviation. That who manages the yes, the

Speaker 1  22:46
PCMA, the

Dhananath Fernando  22:47
PCMA, and what is the appointment process? There are salary scales and things like that because these are quite high-level cases which people require to take risk and really come forward and you know to operate in these quite challenging environments. Could you shed some light on that as well? But first, I think I asked so so many questions in one sentence. But first, let's decode on this crime reparation trust fund. What is it, and what does it plan to do?

Speaker 1  23:20
Yes. So the VCRTF, it's called the Victims of Crime Reparation Trust Fund, which is again a novel concept, a novel establishment through this law. So what it essentially does is it formulates suitable reparatory and developmental and welfare activities, welfare activities for the victims of these crimes, so when a proceed of a suspected proceed of crime is let's say confiscated by the court, and a certain amount is recovered, that will go directly to this fund, and is part of the consolidated fund as well. Right. Yes. So there is a board of trustees in this fund who will be overlooking all of these things and the fund itself, and there it comprises of seven members, if I'm not mistaken. So they actually they are duty bound to. So this is something that we also see as very positive in terms of transparency and accountability measures. So the board of trustees is duty bound to disclose all information pertaining to these reparatory developmental and welfare activities they implement using this fund. So they are mandated to disclose all information and publish them on their website, and also they are bound to disclose the progress of each activity quarterly, and also they are duty bound to submit an annual report to the Parliament and also publish that also in the website, which allows public scrutiny at any time. So these are really good transparency and accountability measures that we also see in terms of the VCRTF, and in terms of. The appointment, remuneration, disqualification, removal-all sorts of these things. There are provisions in the law for both the board of trustees in the trust fund and also the board in the PCMA, the Proceeds of Crime Management Authority. So there are all provided for in the law, one lacuna that we saw was in terms of the VCRTF, the there's a there's no selection criteria, there are no provisions for selection criteria, or the remuneration, the resignation or removal, and no conflict of interest criteria. So these, that's the lacuna that we see in the law. We saw that in the bill stage, and we actually brought it up with the drafting committee as well. But in the act also, we did not see that incorporated yet. So I mean, the government needs to, when implementing this law, the government needs to ensure that these are not abused. These are not misused, and these processes happen with a smooth flow.

Dhananath Fernando  26:07
Got it. And what what are the other elements of it? So we spoke about the the conviction based forfeiture, the non conviction based forfeiture, the victims of crime reparation trust fund, and the PCMA. What are the other institutions which is comes under the Proceeds of Crime Act? Are there any what should the people know about the other institutional framework which comes under this act?

Speaker 1  26:37
So essentially, like I said, it's the CIABOK and the PCID Proceeds of Crime Investigation Division, which are the main two authorities that are mandated to implement this law. So surrounding that, like you said, the PCMA, the Proceeds of Crime Management Authority, is there on one side, and then the trust fund and also Magistrate Court and High Court. They also come into place when it comes to issuing notices of seizure, notices freezing orders, things like that. It it all happens in the process. So, and apart from that, the attorney general's department is also a key component, key institution, because it's the attorney general who has to make an application and basically submit indictments, file indictments. So that is another key institution in this whole picture.

Dhananath Fernando  27:23
So just another sub question on this victims of crime reparation trust fund. So you mentioned there'll be a percentage that will go to this trust fund, which is on also the consolidation fund when the proceeds of crime takes place, and that can be given to the victim. So let's take an example, just for for the understanding of our weavers. Now let's say the immunoglobin case. So I'm not sure the victim is probably the people who got affected, and entire people like who basically, you know, use that immunoglobulin. So then, okay, then you go behind the culprits and you then get whatever that assets that they acquired through this crime, and then what is the next step? Like, does it get distributed to the people who got victimised, or how how does it? Can you give you know explain what is the next step?

Speaker 1  28:32
So according to the law, what it says is where if a high court recognise in its orders specifies that okay, it identifies a certain group of victims. Then those victims are eligible to be compensated through this fund. And also, if I'm not exactly sure of the term, but again, if a certain group of people are designated to be okay, these are victims of this crime. They need To be compensated, so that's how they determine. Okay, these are the victims; they need to be compensated. Likewise, there are provisions for

Speaker 2  29:11
right

Speaker 1  29:11
in the act itself.

Dhananath Fernando  29:13
So make sure that I mean, basically, the the judgement has to define the segment of victims. Yes, correct. Not or anyone can say okay, my tax money has been used, and you cannot go and get claimed for some of those judgments. Okay, got it. So then also wanted to understand the the next steps. Now the the act was passed in 2025, like about a month ago. At what point, whether these commissions and these funds and these implementation agencies have they already been established? Have the main members being appointed? Are they functional? Whether the officers have been set up? Whether there are budgetary allocation for these institutions to come up, so give us from when people can really see the benefits of this act.

Speaker 1  30:13
Right. So according to the act, it gives 12 a 12 month period for the complete implementation of this law. So within 12 months of this act coming into operation, these institutes, the new institutes, institutions needs to be established. But the CIA book, of course, as you know, it is already established under the Anti-Corruption Act. So that is there. But the PCID, which is the new unit under the police, that the PCMA, the trust fund. All of these needs to be established within 12 months of the act coming into operation. So that is that is the time period given to establish properly establish the authorities, appoint the relevant officials, give them proper training on how to go on about these investigations and things like that. In terms of resources, like I said, it's after these institutions are established, and in the next budget, of course, they need to allocate funds for the smooth functioning of these institutions to give effect to this law.

Dhananath Fernando  31:15
Got it. And you spoke about the international cooperation and how, on a bilateral level, that we can get the support on this proceeds of crime act? Is it like can we benchmark it with some international best practices, or do you see this piece of these type of legislation available in other parts of the world? And how are we basically if we benchmark with other you know United Nations countries or their procedures protocol. Where do we stand with this, and does it help? I think one of the main main indexes that we look at is the Transparency International's Corruption Perception Index. Does it these sorts of acts? Does it help on the corruption perception index? Can you shed some light on international cooperation corruption perception index and where we stand on the best practices around the world?

Speaker 1  32:13
Right. So corruption perception index, of course, it sheds a greater. It it it gives a greater understanding to even civil society actors and the government itself as to where we stand in terms of corruption, right? And in terms of the international cooperation which you spoke about, there are definitely many best practices. So there are asset recovery laws in so many countries, and there are success stories where assets have been stolen, assets have been recovered through mutual international cooperation. So, for example, Peru, Nigeria, Philippines. These countries, there are success stories from these countries where they have retrieved billions of dollars worth of assets and money also through this asset recovery process and through international cooperation, and Switzerland, of course, is known to be a country where so many stolen assets are parked in. So famously, I think

Dhananath Fernando  33:15
politicians said like Swiss banks and exactly yes

Speaker 1  33:19
exactly. So it's so from there, and also from Switzerland. I'm taking this as an example. So from Switzerland point of view as well, the Swiss government needs to come into mutual agreement with the origin country. What we call as origin country is where money has been stolen from. So let's take Philippines for an example. So the Philippine government and the Swiss government needs to come into a mutual agreement, and they would have certain conditions as to how this they would go on about this. There are certain cases where the destination country in this, in my example, Switzerland. I'm taking this as an example, like I said. So they would, you know, sort of put a condition in their agreement, saying, okay, we need this many portion for for our purpose, so they would not recover 100% of the stolen assets back to the origin country, but they would keep a portion of it as well. So conditions like this can be there in the agreement between the two governments. So that can happen as well. So the answer to your question is yes, there are many success stories. So I mean, it's actually very inspiring, and that is these cases are something that we also can learn from, and we can sort of you know use to better improve our laws and better improve the implementation of our law.

Dhananath Fernando  34:34
Got it. Did we miss any important components of this proceeds of crime bill? You spoke about the non-conviction for future conviction for future and the the crime reparation trust fund and the other institutes with Siobach and the other institutional structure comes under police. Are there any important features? Are we. Which the public should know.

Speaker 1  35:02
That's pretty much it. I think we pretty much covered the essential, very salient features in the process of crime law. And one thing I would like to sort of reiterate is the political will to implement this law, because without that, like I said, it you can't assure you can't ensure that this asset recovery process is smooth going, and like I said, it takes years and years. Even in international asset recovery examples, it takes years and years, over 10 years, in fact, to complete one case, one asset recovery case. So, from our perspective, from our Sri Lankan context, given the circumstances as well, there needs to be a very genuine and a greater political will to push for this law, push for the relevant authorities, relevant institutions which are mandated to do the to carry out certain functions, to do their job, and make sure the government from the from the end should ensure that these institutions are properly funded, they are properly resourced, and they are capable of carrying out their functions. And for that, you can make sure that the official officials are well trained. So, my key point here is the political will to push for this law and make sure that it it's implemented properly and effectively.

Dhananath Fernando  36:23
Netpe, so you have been explaining about this important bill. The conversation was in Sri Lanka that even to have a proper anti-corruption drive, there were no proper legal framework. So now I think, since as you mentioned, Aragala, there have been back-to-back pieces of legislation that has come into enactment with the civil society diagnosis,

Speaker 1  36:51
civil society diagnostic

Dhananath Fernando  36:52
diagnostic report, IMF governance diagnostic report. Anything else that is missing, or do we have to strengthen on anything else, or do you think like because most of the time, otherwise the politicians, since you spoke about the political will, they will come and say, "Look, I tried my best, but you know this bill wasn't available, or this is it's very difficult. We tried, and there has to be, you know, so much to be done, sort of a story. Anything else? Being an anti-corruption activist, any pieces or any excuses that which is left for politicians to say that no, we could not do it because of this or that.

Speaker 1  37:30
So yes, I mean true enough what you said. So in terms of the legislative landscape in the country, so yes, like you said, there's so many laws already, but there are certain pieces of laws and mechanisms that are missing, which would in fact help this asset recovery process very much. Is one is the beneficial ownership registry, where where we can identify who the actual beneficiary of a certain company, let's say, so who's the actual beneficiary? Who actually benefits from these from these income? So that beneficial ownership registry is absolutely necessary in terms of identifying who does what, how how they have come to bear certain amount of wealth, things like that. So that is actually in the works, I would say, through the Companies Amendment Act. So this was we TISL was actually involved with this process as well, and it was almost passed last year. But with the elections and government change, it was it came to a standstill. But now it has come back up again, and it's in the process. It's in the works, and then also the conflict of interest registry, where we can identify if there are any conflicts between, let's say, in public within public officials, the politicians and bureaucrats, whether there are any conflicts of interest, which can be heavily useful for these investigations under the Prince of Crime Act, and also the asset declaration system. I mean, it's there; it's in place through the Anti-Corruption Act. The Bribery Commission is mandated to look after it, maintain it. But a key note to make here is that it's not public; it's not completely publicly available. There are certain restrictions. So, if it was open and accessible to the public, which can be scrutinised by the public, so that will also be very useful for the effective implementation of not only the Process of Crime Act but also anti-corruption landscape as a whole.

Dhananath Fernando  39:41
Nathbi, thank you very much for joining us. But anything before we wrap up? Anything? Any final comments? Anything that I should have asked but I did not ask any final thoughts on this very important piece of legislation or on the anti-corruption drive that you have been advocating for for for quite a long time.

Speaker 1  40:00
Just, just to say that in terms of the public, I mean, the mere request we can't make from the public is to exercise their civic duty to report, to complain if they come about any offences like any small small unlawful activity, like a bribe, a corruption, any other corruption offences, if they come to know about it, if they experience it firsthand, the first thing and the only thing they can easily do is complain. You can approach the bribery commission, which is already established, and you can make a complaint to it. You can even make anonymous complaints. The public can do that. They can request their identity to not be disclosed if there's a concern or if there's a fear. So what we can from TISL, what we can request the public is to be aware of these laws, be aware of these processes, and also engage with the government and basically exercise their civic duty to report on these corrupt activities and make help contribute to this anti-corruption drive.

Dhananath Fernando  41:05
Thank you very much, Nitmi, for joining us at Vokara Studio, and thank you for our viewers for watching us. And of course, you got the you got a proper briefing from the experts on this Proceeds of Crime Act, which is a very very important piece of legislation, which is which will be coming to act in the next 12 months, hopefully. And Netmi is the senior programmes officer at Transparency International, and TISL have been in the forefront on voicing out against anti-corruption, and for so many other cases that has been in action in Sri Lanka, so thank you Netmee and the TISL team for joining us. You can find us in Singhala English and Tamil in all three languages. We are available in English as Advocata Institute, Advocata Plus in Singala and as Advocata Kural in Tamil, and we are available on all platforms: Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok, WhatsApp, whatever social media platform we you should be able to find us. Thank you very much. We'll we'll we'll reach you with another episode, not only on anti-corruption but also on the new economic updates. Stay tuned with Advocata Institute, Advocata Plus, and Advocata Kural.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai