Dhananath Fernando  00:03
Hello, hello everyone! Welcome to Advocata Studio. We are going to discuss today again about tourism. Interestingly, we are recording this just after the India-Pakistan match. I'm sure everyone was interested about like how many private jets arrived, but there was a missing link. That's about the women participation in tourism. If you recall, we had a similar conversation with Malik Fernando in collaboration with MDF to discuss about how can we get more women participated in the tourism industry. Because as we all know, in Sri Lanka, overall, the women participation in labour force is quite low. At the same time, when it comes to, in particular, in the tourism industry, which has so many challenges, so we thought that it is an interesting, timely topic, especially as everyone also speaks about the tourism industry on economic recovery and earning more and more dollars, and with cricket, so on and so forth. We thought this is the right time, just right time, to have another conversation about the future of women in Sri Lanka and the tourism industry. So, joining with me today is Dmitri Kureth, managing director of Jetwing Hotels, and Haysinth Gunawadhana, executive director at Jetwing. Welcome both of you for our podcast.

Speaker 1  01:23
Thank you, thanks, Daniel. Thank you.

Dhananath Fernando  01:25
So, just wanted to discuss. I'll first start with Haysin because you have a very interesting career. I was told joined as a assistant receptionist,

Speaker 2  01:37
trainee receptionist, trainee

Dhananath Fernando  01:38
receptionist, and ranking up to the executive director, tell us like what happened? How did it happen?

Speaker 2  01:48
When I joined, it was in 1977, but I never dreamt of going up like that, you know. Because the thing is that era, it's not the tourism or we you used to call hotel. Hotel industry was not for women, but my my passion was to go fly somehow to be a hostess and all that. Right. So then my parents actually they are very broad-minded. My father has been abroad and to Canada and also it was not very difficult for me to join the industry. mr. Herbert Kurette Herbert Kure just interviewed me at home, and then he asked me, "What do you want to do? Join tomorrow. From tomorrow, you can join. I said receptionist, but I didn't know anything about the hotel industry. So I said, "I'm receptionist. I thought maybe you can just talk to somebody, and then so from that's how I started the when I was at Blue Oceany Beach Hotel. Now it's the Jetwing. We call it Jetwing Blue. That is our first hotel, which was built by late mr. Kure with six rooms, and then it went on. By the time I joined, it was they had about 60 rooms or so. So that's how. And there were very basic facilities in our country, no, like especially the telephone. There are only two phones. I remember at the reception and also the manager, like that. So, with minimum basic things, only we started. And then I had the passion because I I want to be a house just. So that means I wanted more than travelling to meet people, right? So then I found that that was a very best good opportunity for me to meet people, very especially the people coming from different different countries, because that time it was mostly the either the Scandinavians or the Germans used to come. Not so many Sri Lankans actually came to. But as

Dhananath Fernando  03:42
in now, you know, starting from a trainee receptionist to a managing director of one of the largest chains is, I mean, it's not a joke, right? You have to work very hard and like also knowing the perceptions about the industry, like from what I recollect, you said you joined in 1977. If you recall what people said about tourism industry. Of course, I wasn't born in 1977. Yeah, none of us were born. So, so you have to help us on understanding because from opening up the economy, people said like you know, tourists are coming and there are a lot of culture. It's sort of a cultural shock, and yeah, I mean the the society was not evolved, or neither we had this technology to even to see what was going around the world. Yes. So how did you like from a trainee reception? Is what how was that promotion process came in, and how did you change throughout this journey? Right.

Speaker 2  04:36
So now at the beginning, as you said, technologically we were not so so equipped or whatever, but whatever I did, I did it with love and care. So I knew something. The late chairman, as a as a managing director, used to observe me. Like you know, he used to my manager used to say that you know he's very impressed with you the way you walk, work, and all because. Used to work long hours. I always put my heart and soul to whatever you I did. It's we had to do billing, we had to do day sheets, we had to do everything like you know because everything is manual. So even the telephone, everything. But whatever I did, I did not grumble. I I know, and my my father used to come shop to pick me up because we had only two shifts, so those two shifts he made sure he dropped me off and he pick me pick me up. So the boys used to laugh at me also, but then I still it was not a big big problem for me. So what I what I what I

Dhananath Fernando  05:37
what I feel is while your father was an open-minded person. Still, he was made sure

Speaker 2  05:43
that he protected his daughter, you know. So anyway, so later in 1982 or 86, I think, son mr. Dimitri Kure joined because he came from Iran. Hiran. Sorry, Iran. Sorry, join Iran Kulev joined. He came from overseas and he had lot of he had a very broad minded and to develop and he took took the company to a different level. So he started giving us lot of training. Though we did the on the on the job training during that when we were trainees, but different training we used to get because now we the country was also getting into like you know the technologically getting improved like you know switchboards and then also the email all those things came up. So then we were sent. I was given a lot of training. Not only me, all the almost everybody was given the opportunity on a lot of training, so we had to like HR. I was sent to NIBM, National Institute of Business Management for one year, and then I I followed the I had to follow that was paid by the company actually invested on us, and so HR and finance and marketing. Then also we had to go for computer classes because in 1986, I think the computers came into email, and so we had to. We were also given a lot of. He made sure that the company made sure that we were given a lot of training, invested on us. So I took that opportunity because some of them did maybe did not want to take that opportunity, but I thought maybe I took it very seriously, like you know the job, and then I took that opportunity. So then we had the evaluation systems, and you know on we were given promotions on merit. So like that, you know, thereby we had I I was given a lot of opportunities to go up in life. Then also when it came to like you know not only that you know the wines we had to do a first level wine exam. We had to there was a person Jeffrey Benson he was the one who was who we bought who was a supplier and also a consultant to the wines in Jetwing because we had our own single single wines collection of wines with only in Jetwing. We that wines were not available in Sri Lanka. So likewise, we were given a lot of training on tea and single estate owned teas and like that, you know. So, so gradually we were also developed by the company to take up more responsibilities than sustainability. Though the sustainability word came during mr. Kure's time was also there because he was very particularly was working with the locals. I used to remember that you know those fishermen they used to come and he said in the lobby he used to come they used to come and sit with him and then talk to him and all that, so observing them and how humble he was and then observing him, observing the manager that time he said one summer singer he was spot on he used to you know find we used to talk. My God, how can he see all those faults? You know, he used to. You know, I for retail he was very good. So like that, you know. So I developed myself with the help of with the investment did by the company.

Dhananath Fernando  09:14
I'm very excited to learn more about the story, but I have to go back to Dmitry and ask. Now you are the third generation from from from the little that I read about the group. So what she says is she had started with when your grandfather was basically founded the the chain, and then your father and now you took over the business. Like I mean, what's the strategy? Because we are talking about women in in in business and especially on the industry, was there like an overall philosophy which was coming through in the in the group, or like what was how how as a chain that you have looked at it to begin with, Dmitry?

Speaker 1  09:51
So I think for us it has never been like okay. We haven't specifically focused on having the women in the manager. But it was like she mentioned before. It was purely on merit, and we are proud to say that we were. She became the first female general manager of a star class hotel in Sri Lanka in the early 2000s, and since at one time we actually had about seven females as general managers of our hotels, and currently also we still have a few remaining with us. Some have retired now, but so it was a gradual build-up, and most, like her, who have almost 50 years with the company now, have dedicated most of their lives and grown in. Tourism is industry for all, and like she said, it was that passion and commitment which was the most important. Most of the managers within our group have grown within with the company. We have from different backgrounds, walks of life, and education is not always what we look at. It's that commitment and that love and affection you show, because that genuine service has to come from the heart, and that is something my grandfather always insisted on-that hospitality, warm hospitality, what he said, all the legendary Sri Lankan hospitality-and that is something that we always empower our staff as well, associates, on how they can go that extra mile, and that is something that we always try to differentiate ourselves from others, and as a result, we have seen so many light mr. Norden and others who have drawn up the ladder and listen to some of the highest portions Indian industry has to offer. So we are extremely happy and proud, and also very grateful for their commitment to the company.

Dhananath Fernando  11:40
Dividendri, just wanted to let's get back to the hard facts. Now, running a hotel is not easy because you, as she said, like there are different people from different countries. It's not the same customer or the client, and also this is a 24/7 kind of an operation. And sometimes there's a perception. Okay, men can be a better fit because in terms of the kind of the service. So in that context, how do how do you distinguish like the need for women participation? Because you said you had seven at one point, even at the senior positions, not at you know not at the staff level. These are very senior positions. How do you see the essentiality being in this industry? Seeing how your father did it, how your grandfather probably did it. Why do you think it is important? Or like as a business point of view, what's the business case for women to really be in this game?

Speaker 1  12:37
For us, it didn't matter whether you were male or female. Okay, it was purely on merit and your skill. Actually, she was running our largest two largest properties in Idambo, and our largest profit centre as well for almost 10 years. She was the general manager of both of more than more than about 15 years. She was so, and my father always says she was the best manager he had, so for us it doesn't matter whether you are male or female, purely on merit, and and that will give you. And now even in the north, our manager in the Jaffna is a lady,

Dhananath Fernando  13:16
right?

Speaker 1  13:17
And she controls, and she's a Sinhalese lady from actually close to Nidambo in the Ula PTA, and she on her own said she wants to go to Jaffna, and for the last 10 years she's been there. So she has been able with the culture adopt herself and all of that. So it doesn't matter for us where you come from, your background, but purely on your merit and your commitment, if you are the right fit for the job, you'll be able to get it.

Dhananath Fernando  13:44
So that's a that's an interesting point because you are what you are saying is you are not giving an opportunity just because someone is a man or a woman. You are giving on the merit basis, and actually the Sri Lankan women have that capacity and the competence level to really step up and compete, and so not to not to think that just because someone's gender really doesn't help to you know get to places or so. I think that's that's a very interesting and important comment. Yes, of course.

Speaker 2  14:14
Also, the how the companies are looking at because our company Jetwing I know about the other places. There Even anything, gender didn't matter, promotion or salary increment or anything, and we also have to. As a female, you cannot just go back and say, "Oh no, no, no! I'm a female. I can't come. You have to do when there is a crisis. You have to face when there are challenges. You have to face. So it's like a like a you're you're in charge of the whole scenario because when tsunami came I was the general manager I can't I cannot go home and hide myself saying that oh no I'm a female I can't do but we had to come forward so difference is the women women I think I think have the power and also the. Capability of handling things, because sometimes it's coming. Maybe, maybe the the outside influence make you a little bit of a you know how can you do that? You know you are not the how females can do this and that all that. But I think we should not get carried away or get you know frightened of all those comments. You know, we have to really. That time, I am the one who led the whole the tsunami time. You know. Hi, can I? If I were

Dhananath Fernando  15:30
to intervene for a second now, I mean, if you compare industries, tourism industry probably the most roller coaster, exciting roller coaster ride for a long time because I don't know. I mean, from tsunami, even there was a war. There was plane. I mean, attacks to the airport and then Easter attack, constitutional coup. I mean, if something happens, there has definitely some impact on the tourism industry. So tell us, like, how did you manage? Like, do you have like tsunami? I would really like to know. I was a schoolboy then. Like, what? I mean, how did you manage it, or like, Shag? Take us. Can you take us through your experience on like in most of the cases, like how did you manage it? Like, what was the story behind

Speaker 2  16:09
it? Right. So during tsunami, so you get excited, you know. But I, I when the when the staff was really getting excited, I I told them that you calm down, you know. I my inside. I am also not so calm. But then I said, "No, calm down, calm down. We'll we'll see what is happening. So mr. Kore was calling and saying that you know this place is went down and we have lost so many people. But then the even the communication was lost. But what we did was we had few hotels that is Jet Wim Blue. I was at BH that time, Jetwing Blue and then Jetwing C. The managers we got together we and we planned out how what we are going to do because we didn't know that what will happen the next because the waves were coming like this and they said by the midnight the whole hotel will be underwater so we went with three of us got together went and went to a nearby school, and then we spoke to the the principal there. Luckily, mr. My colleague Alexander, he knew it was the school near his house, and then we started, you know, putting all the facilities for the guests before they, we take them. So we thought we wanted to move out of the hotel because there were no hotels. So we had to house them somewhere. So school was the best place. Then there were classrooms. So we took the be beach beds and metroses and all those things, whatever possible, and we took them to the nearby school, and we put up TVs for them to see the news and all that. Gave as much as possible the facilities that we could provide. Then we started cooking in the hotel. We had to provide them meals, so we staff got together because some of them left. They and some of the senior staff stayed with us. So we we somehow managed because we had the the equipments and we also had the the goods like you know the food was there like you know in the stores so we started cooking and delivering it and so like that you know we so you manage most difficult times in the yeah in the

Dhananath Fernando  18:20
yeah, in the history probably in the history of Sri Lanka. Yeah, when

Speaker 2  18:23
it came to like you know the family, they were saying, "What are you doing? Are you mad? Why are you doing mutual? So I said, "No, the thing is because I am a female, I can't leave. Actually, I am I am the manager who is in charge. I am in charge. I have to look after the guests as well as the staff more than the property, also whatever we could, but that property, looking after, rescuing property was a third option. Like you know, but we had the human beings. We had to.

Dhananath Fernando  18:51
But also, can I? If I were to ask, like, how did you? Because you made a very interesting point. Like, okay, you are now taking care of your guests and the business and the property, but of course, you also have a family and a personal life, like you know. Yeah, but then how do you how do you manage that? And what was the?

Speaker 2  19:08
I don't1. thing is, I'm a Catholic and I believe in God, and I always ask God's help intervention. So maybe I I feel that I had the intervention from God, and then He looked after me, and then he looked. He gave me the inspiration or the spirit to guide the others also, because some other managers were also running or going home, like you know, running. But so

Dhananath Fernando  19:33
understood. Yeah, it's a tough, tough decision. Tough time. Yeah, tough call. Also, Dimitri, just want to understand. Like, since you have a history of, I mean, you said it's all on merit basis, but it seems that there are people gone up to the higher rankings when it comes to the female women labour force participation in your chain. Like, are there? I mean, as a management, have there any structural barriers or cultural barriers that you have? Identified on especially females joining the the industry, and how do you manage as a group, or are there any any solutions that you have brought out to basically address this challenge? I would also like to know same from Highsin, but I would first like from to know from you how how this challenge has been addressed?

Speaker 1  20:23
Definitely in Sri Lanka there is a challenge. There's a this stigma that hospitality means something else, and especially maybe Kalambo, Nigambo, and a few other cities, it's a little different. But we as an organisation now we have grown and we have 38 properties around the country, and what we do now is actually we started off in 2006 with Jetpin Miluena when we started our youth development programme, where we when when we are looking at recruiting at the early stages, what we do is we work with the local community and the predominant religion in that area, for example, in Sidira, it was the temple with the Buddhist monk, and we also invite the parents of the youth to come and see the hotel. So the parents come like for a bit of orientation somewhere, and they see, okay, this is not what they are heard from their whatever the thoughts from the neighbours or what they have heard from others. So by showcasing that, and also by getting the lottery Buddhist monks, the priests, and so on, to advise the youth, both male and female, that working in a hotel does not mean anything wrong or anything bad, and that has really helped us. And even when we went to Jaffna in 2015, and we did the youth development programme there, everybody told us girls in Jaffna won't join the industry. That the girls are very conservative; they will not work, but actually, we had one of our largest turnouts were females for that programme, and a lot of them worked with us. Of course, unfortunately, there's been still a bit of a cultural issue where after marriage, a lot of the men tell the ladies not to work, which unfortunately is another issue that hopefully things will change over time. That there'll be more acceptance. There'll be more acceptance of after marriage also for them to work in the cities due to either financial constraints. A lot of people or also professional reasons people work, but in the villages, though there might be financial constraints, the men maybe are just sometimes a bit proud or arrogant. Will say that they will provide for the family and ask the wife to be at home and look after the children. So that is sometimes the issue we face. But to overcome that, now we have actually started a separate programme called Sedentaryers, where we love most ladies by the time they are in their mid to late 40s, the children have grown up, and sometimes some of them, unfortunately, their husbands have either passed away or they are struggling, and they are migrated. Yeah, some problem they have. So now we.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai